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Friday Feedback for 8/20/2010

Today’s Friday feedback comes from two comments on two different blogs.  It will be in the form of a Video Blog, or VLOG! Sounds exciting, wonder if it will catch on?

Comment #1 is from the blog “Two WorldViews – Creation or Humanism”

Joakim writes:

“If Christianity is true, we are just God’s little toys created simply for the purpose of praising him.

In the Humanist view, we may be the most intelligent and resourceful beings in the universe, able to /construct/ a purpose and meaning of life instead of just passively expecting to have it given to us on a silver platter.”

Let’s address a couple of points:

  1. First, you have mischaracterized the Christian worldview in your first statement; we are not toys; we are God’s children. We were created in His image to represent Him on earth and to glorify Him forever.
  2. Even if what you are saying were true, you couldn’t know it to be true. If all we are is matter in motion, then attributing truth to anything is impossible. Matter in motion does not give us truth.
  3. If God is God then He can do whatever He wants! We know from studying scripture that He does everything for His own glory! (Isaiah 46:10) Everything God does is good! To make any objection would be appealing to the very standard you reject. In Session 6 of Beginnings we get into the truth about life and discover that the God of the Bible pretty much does whatever He wants!  And that is ok, because He is God!
  4. If there is no God, you would not be able to imagine! There would be no abstract, immaterial ideas to think of. There would be no thinking at all for that matter. The very fact that you have the ability to think about this is evidence itself of God! Stop trying to hide what you know to be true. God is God and you don’t like that because you want to be the center of all things.  You want to be the God of your own universe! Romans 1 and 2 tells us what happens when you suppress the truth. Bad things are coming. But the good news is that salvation is not only to save your soul from eternity in hell, but also to save your reasoning now. Please, instead of denying what you know to be true, repent of your sin and trust Christ.

Comment #2 is from the blog “Faith is the Foundation

Jay wrote:

“Eric, I hear you and Sye claiming rather often that the Christian worldview is the only worldview that can account for rules of logic etc etc, but I’ve never once heard either of you (or any other presupassitional apologist) even attempt to back up such a claim. Would you care to try backing that up now, in this post?

How about you just answer these questions:

Why do rules of logic NOT comport with an Islamic worldview (after all, Islam also claims to follow a diety who created and sustains all of nature).

Why do rules of logic NOT comport with a naturalistic worldview that states that laws of logic are constructs that aid in human understanding of how the universe operates?”

Jay, I am making the claim that the Christian worldview is the only one that is true because it has been revealed to us. This is very different than saying Christianity is true because the others are wrong. Jesus said He is the way, the truth, and the life, “no one comes to the Father but by me.”

Now, do the other worldviews fail? Yes, and we can show that, but rather than go down through the list, let’s start with your worldview. It doesn’t make sense to argue over worldviews that neither of us believe. Apparently you are an atheist, so lets start with Naturalism. I have a claim to revelation to know truth. What is your claim to know anything? You might even say, I can’t know anything.

I told my seven-year old daughter that some people claim that they can not know anything, and she said, “How do they know that?”

What is your foundation to reject my worldview? You will one day find that your very foundation to reject my worldview assumes my worldview! I hope you see this truth and repent before it is too late.

,

Leave9 Responses to testFriday Feedback for 8/20/2010

  1. Ryan Vinter August 20, 2010 at 11:02 pm #

    Great job Eric :) you continue to inspire me. :)

  2. Joakim Rosqvist August 21, 2010 at 11:08 am #

    Hi Eric,

    Thank you for making a “vlog” to address my comments.

    >> “we are God’s children”

    You are flattering yourself. Real children eventually grow up to become as capable as their parents. But in the Christian worldview, God’s “children” will never be as omnipotent, omniscient or morally perfect as God. Toys can do amazing thing, but rarely reach the capabilities of their creator. Thus, humans as God’s toys is a good analogy for Christianity.

    There is nothing “sad” about not having a predefined purpose in life. It’s called freedom. If you don’t get to decide for yourself what the purpose of your life is, then by what measure is it “your” life?

    >> God can do whatever he wants!

    Of course he can. So can any made-up character. That doesn’t make them any more real.

    >> Stop trying to hide what you know to be true.

    I’m sure its very comfortable to imagine that your opponents deep down secretly agree with you. That doesn’t mean they do.

    >> God is God and you don’t like that because you want to be the center of all things

    I would like to improve my understanding and control of the world around me. That’s a far cry from wanting to be “the center of all things”.
    I certainly do not dislike God, as I’ve never met him and don’t know anything he has done. What I do dislike, however, is when people try to claim that their opinions are to be considered more important that those of others because they supposedly come from their powerful imaginary friend.

    You seem to believe that telling true from false and thinking about anything at all can only be done if there is a God, presumably your particular version of God. Please go into more detail about why you think so, as I see no connection between these things.

  3. Jay Liverstitch August 21, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    Thanks for responding Eric.

    In point of fact, the claim you made had nothing to do with anything being revealed to you. To quote you:

    “The only worldview that can account for the reliability of our senses is Christian worldview based on the one God, the God of the Bible.”

    Note that this is not a claim that can even be addressed exclusively through an examination of Christianity. You have made a claim about other worldviews (that they can not account for reliability of senses). So it DOES make sense to argue of them, whether either of us hold them or not. In order to demonstrate that your claim is true, you MUST examine those worldviews that you statement addresses.

    Also note, I used the word “demonstrate”. I’m not asking how you know Christianity to be true. I’m asking you, how can I know it to be true. I’m asking you to demonstrate to me, what you claim to already know.

    This sort of begs the question, why do you refuse to try and demonstrate a claim you’ve made? You say you can show that Islam and Naturalism cannot account for reliability of senses. I now ask you to do so. After all, perhaps the best way to show me the you’re correct, would be to demonstrate that everyone else was wrong. If you made such a list of worldviews and effectively debunked each one, you would quite possibly win more converts to Christianity than anyone in history.

    You ask me why I reject your worldview? Perhaps I don’t. Perhaps I’ve just not yet to accept it. Give me a logical reason to accept what you say and I will do so.

    You mention in the video that I’m jumping around pointing at other worldviews “what about Buddha, what about Muhammad”. Ofcourse I am, and why shouldn’t I? It’s the proponents of each of these worldviews that are competing for my devotion, including you, Eric. So in essence, I’m shopping for a worldview. When I shop for a new PDA phone, I always compare competing brands, to see which is best. The same is true in this case. I want you to show me that your worldview is best (or in this case, truth).

    As it stands, your worldview seems equally as likely to be true as that of Islam. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf also claims to know his worldview to be true based on what was revealed to him by an omnipotent God. So my question is, how can I, an outside observer who has yet to accept either your, or Rauf’s claims, effectively distinguish between them?

    Perhaps you’ll say that the God of Christianity has already revealed to me that he’s the one true God (as you did in a previous Creation Moment video). I like this answer. It’s a convenient way to declare victory before the discussion starts (I’m sure it also helps you sleep at night). The only problem I see with it, is that it makes you completely obsolete. If I already know what you know (and for some reason inexplicably reject it to my own damnation), then why did Jesus command you to go into the earth and tell me what I already know? Furthermore, if such were true, would it be possible for someone to be “deceived” as the Bible often describes non-believers?

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. I look forward to continueing the discussion.

    Jay

  4. Jaewon Oh August 21, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    oh, so that’s what a vlog is…

  5. Nigel McNaughton August 21, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    It was revealed to you? Fantastic.

    Now show how you verify that your mind is working without a problem. And how you distinguish truth from deception from a being who could lie to you and make you believe it’s the truth.

  6. Eric Hovind August 21, 2010 at 9:12 pm #

    Chad Hovind had this to say from Facebook:

    Joakim “We are little toys created just for the purpose of praising Him.”
    I think I’d begin by “reading between the lines” You seem to imply that “simply praising Him” is a bad thing. Or imply that God is an Ego-maniac. Let me clarify. To praise God is to have our lives focused on perfect love, compassion, purpose, meaning, and truth. So, when God invites us to praise Him, He is invited us to experience ultimate joy, contentment, perfect ambition, and radically acceptance. So, God is not an “Ego-Maniac” by wanting our praise, He is instead desiring us to share in the reality of Who he is: Perfect Humilty, Others-centeredness, and Selflessness. The invitation to praise Him, is the invitation to center out lives on everything good. The reality is that when we do this, we become greater and greater.

    The problem with being a “little toy” is that we have become little by focusing on what comes naturally: Self. We are little toys because our selfishness, pride, and constant need to “praise” ourselves has made us small and wayward on a trajectory toward ultimate smallerness.

    Joakim “In the Humanist view, we may be the most intelligent and resourceful beings in the universe, able to /construct/ a purpose and meaning of life.” In the Humanist world view, we are invited into real “smallness” -which comes from focusing on Self. See the quote, “We are the most intelligent.” We are “big stuff” We are the meaning of the universe. We are the most resourceful. In other words, it is a continual focus on self. Me. And “purpose” in this worldview comes from a continual trajectory of “me me me.” Which leads to pride, “Look how much more intelligent I am than others” Look how much more resourceful I am than others, Hypocrisy, Arrogance, and Judgmentalism will be the end game of this line of thinking. ” Humanism and Religion can lead to The small thinking of Self: I am better because I am smarter, more religious, more resourceful, don’t do “such and such” or think “such and such”… Ironically, Humanistic Thinking and Religious Moralistic Thinking lead to the same dead end. Hypocrisy, Judgmentalism, and Pride. Only the Gospel calls us to find our identity in Him, resulting in humility, gratitude, and perfect acceptance from God and for others ~Chad

  7. steve sikora August 21, 2010 at 10:28 pm #

    Great answer for “we can’t know anything.” Why didn’t I think of that. Sooo simple.
    The answers are correct but difficult to get without lots of repetition to reinforce the truth. Great use of the media. I like it.

  8. Joakim Rosqvist August 22, 2010 at 3:03 am #

    Hi Chad, and thank yo for your facebook comments.

    >> “To praise God is to have our lives focused on perfect love, compassion, purpose, meaning, and truth”

    Sounds fine to me! None of those things seems to require a belief in any particular God, though.

    >> See the quote, “We are the most intelligent.”

    Please quote me correctly. I said “We *may be* the most intelligent…”. If the process of evolution has resulted in us, among other things, here on Earth, it could have produced something more intelligent elsewhere.

    >> “I am better because I am smarter …”

    I did not intend to imply that “most intelligent” means “better” in any absolute sense. Whoever is better at something can be worse at something else, and only the future will tell which property it is most important to excel at. Being among the most intelligent and resourceful entities, however, means that we can learn about and control the world around us. Science is based on curiosity about everything and thus far from only focusing on “me me me”.

    >> “He [God] is instead desiring us to share in the reality of Who he is:”

    Funny how a supposedly omnipotent entity like God never seems to be able to speak for himself, but has to have you and other believers inform the world. Given that humans are imperfect and may distort or invent messages “from God”, I’d say it is safer to discard any such message until it is made clear that they are not man-made.

  9. Charles Haley August 23, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    I can’t wait for our Lord to come!!