End of Year

Government Master Card

I just love the new Government Master Card. It is a great way to get a conversation started about the truth of Godonomics. An economy not based on God’s ways inevitably leads to problems.

Finally—a master card that is yours exclusively! Inspired by the work of Karl Marx, the “Spend Like There Is No Tomorrow” card is priceless. Actually the size of a credit card, it is a constant reminder that a large government takes what is yours and leads you to become its servant.

These cards are great to hand to a cashier or to give to a complete stranger and say, “Here, let me put that on my new Government Master Card.” They will get a kick out of the card and it will remind them of Godonomics: God’s principles as they apply to an economy. Don’t become a slave to the lender. Use GODONOMICS.

Watch the video of Karl introducing the card himself!

The back of the card reads:

GOVERNMENT MASTER CARD. Inspired by the work of Karl Marx. You deserve more than you can afford. Use your card to earn reward dollars that add to the current 13.5 trillion dollars in national debt. As you bail out failing companies or pay your neighbor’s mortgage, remember you’ll be dead before your great-great-great-grandchildren get the bill. Ignore the fact that you’ve empowered the government to steal from others, violating one of the 10 commandments. Try not to think of how you’ve violated others’ properties rights, and flushed incentive down the toilet, spitting into the wind of God’s commandment, if you do not work, you do not eat! Ignore the road to serfdom – it violates God’s warnings of Socialism in 1 Samuel 8 – that a large government takes what’s yours and leads you becoming its servants. Socialism: a great way to ruin your country.

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Leave98 Responses to testGovernment Master Card

  1. Geno Castagnoli December 15, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    Jesus Christ was himself a socialist. Didn’t he advocate the rich giving their wealth to the poor? Didn’t he say it was easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?

    Further, there are communistic organizations that have operated successfully for centuries.

    The difference is between VOLUNTARY socialism/communism and that imposed INvoluntarilly by the state.

  2. Alfred Russell Wallace December 15, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    What does this have to do with Science of your particular brand of mutant propaganda (creation science)?

  3. Duane December 15, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    I’ve been saying all along that the Hovinds aren’t real evangelists. They are the kind of folks that you hear calling into Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM. They are conspiracy theorists, plain and simple. The Creationism is just another aspect of their interest in things outside the mainstream. They have no credibility outside the small group of posters that defend them in here. The only one out there with less credibility than Hovind is Ray Comfort.

  4. Jack Napper December 15, 2010 at 3:03 pm #

    Remind me again,

    “who’s gonna wind up footing the bill for the war in Iraq?”

    “who was it that took the Social Security surplus and spent it on a war nobody wanted and to pay their contractor buddies?”

    Looks like you’re jumping on the “socialist bandwagon” a little late there Eric. It also appears you have a very odd view of what socialism is.

  5. Stephen Holshouser December 15, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    Geno,

    Jesus Christ was not a socialist. The definition of a socialist or communist IS one that DOES advocate the state taking money by force to give it to someone else. You can’t change the definition of socialist and then call Jesus one. “Voluntary” socialism is called philanthropy.

    Regarding rich men going to heaven; many of God’s chosen and beloved, especially from the Old Testament, were very wealthy men… “with God, all things are possible” to fill in more of the context that you mentioned.

    Btw; the poor at the time that Jesus was on the earth were destitute. The “poor” we have in America today need two cars, central heat and air, washers and dryers, big screen TV’s, and cell phones. My church is in a poor neighborhood by today’s standards and 95% of the people that come there to get assistance refuse the food from our food pantry… not because it isn’t good, but because they don’t need it!

  6. Eric Hovind December 15, 2010 at 3:46 pm #

    Geno,
    Absolutely not! You have to to watch Godonomics and get the truth about what God says concerning economy.

    http://www.godonomics.com

    Socialism is the result of evolutionary thinking. Powers are granted from a government, rather than being endowed by God. This underlying issue is why some people do not have a proper view of reality, be that Government, Science, Relationships, Religion, etc.

    So, Are rights given to us, or are they from God?

    Eric

  7. Eric Hovind December 15, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    Alfred,

    I can’t help but wonder if you have a distorted view of Science. Science in its simplicity is “knowledge”. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Eric

  8. Duane December 15, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    I looked into the Godonomics. Eric? The prosperity doctrine??? Seriously? You know how you guys infiltrated the Republican party to further your agenda? The prosperity doctrine is just the Republican influence back the other way. It is absolutely against the teachings of Christ that you are supposed to be rich and that being rich is a blessing from God. If you were at all a true Christian you would recognize Godonomics for the lie it is even within your Christian worldview. I am currently re-reading the Bible and this flies in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus. This once again proves what I have been saying all along. Mention Jesus enough and you guys will buy into anything. It’s like you guys are primed to be ripped off.

    • Steve Gage December 16, 2010 at 8:53 am #

      Duane,

      By “looking into Godomonics”, what exactly did that entail? Because, if you were to actually watch the videos, you would find quickly that this has nothing to do with a prosperity gospel. The Bible says that God has plans for us to prosper; but that doesn’t mean to get rich! It means to mature. Godonomics is about being better handlers of the resources that God gives us.

  9. David McCrea December 15, 2010 at 6:10 pm #

    Geno:

    Your comments scare me. Even without the inclusion of religion, your comments scare me.

    Geno, you would take my rights away in a heartbeat if you could because as a committed atheist, you believe rights are granted by men and not God. In fact, atheists are hard at work right now here in America trying to destroy religious liberty, and having great success at that.

    And what a disingenuous way to gloss over communist atrocities of the past 100 years.

    Do you agree with the Communist Manifesto, even if only one plank? Your voluntary strain of communism would put you in the gulag for life for no other reason than you were found to be speaking or writing on issues in disagreement with the state. Or because you worshipped God instead of the state.

    You just don’t get it do you? You just can’t or won’t grasp the importance of God in establishing and maintaining our liberties.

    I just pray the scales fall before it’s too late for you.

    God bless and Merry Christmas.

  10. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 7:08 pm #

    Eric,
    I will believe you are sincere about your disdain for social programs the instant that you sign this:

    Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
    I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
    I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
    Social Security
    Medicare/Medicaid
    Unemployment Insurance
    State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
    Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
    US Postal Service
    Roads and Highways
    Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
    The US Railway System
    Public Subways and Metro Systems
    Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
    Rest Areas on Highways
    Sidewalks
    All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf)
    Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
    Public and State Universities and Colleges
    Public Primary and Secondary Schools
    Sesame Street
    Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
    Public Museums
    Libraries
    Public Parksand Beaches
    State and National Parks
    Public Zoos
    Unemployment Insurance
    Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
    Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, Stateor Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
    Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
    Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
    Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD’s ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
    Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
    Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies
    If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care
    I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.
    I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist
    locations, including but not limited to:
    Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
    The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
    The government-operated Statue of Liberty
    The Grand Canyon
    The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
    The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
    All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC
    I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.
    I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.
    I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.
    I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.
    Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.
    Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.
    SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF ____________ IN THE YEAR ______________.

  11. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    Eric,
    If you are so sincere about your disdain for social programs then you won’t mind signing this:

    Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
    I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
    I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
    Social Security
    Medicare/Medicaid
    Unemployment Insurance
    State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
    Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
    US Postal Service
    Roads and Highways
    Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
    The US Railway System
    Public Subways and Metro Systems
    Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
    Rest Areas on Highways
    Sidewalks
    All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009federal senate appropriations–http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf)
    Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
    Public and State Universities and Colleges
    Public Primary and Secondary Schools
    Sesame Street
    Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
    Public Museums
    Libraries
    Public Parksand Beaches
    State and National Parks
    Public Zoos
    Unemployment Insurance
    Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
    Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, Stateor Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
    Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
    Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
    Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD’s ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
    Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With,

  12. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    Part two:

    Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
    Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies
    If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care
    I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.
    I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist
    locations, including but not limited to:
    Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
    The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
    The government-operated Statue of Liberty
    The Grand Canyon
    The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
    The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
    All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC
    I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.
    I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.
    I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.
    I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.
    Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.
    Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.
    SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF ____________ IN THE YEAR ______________.

  13. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 7:29 pm #

    Eric,

    You must have been sleeping in civivs class.

    America is not and will not become a socialist country in the foreseeable future.
    We are a form of democrasy, based upon our founding document, the constitution, making us a Constitutional Republic.
    We do have social programs that benefit everybody.
    I know it is common for fundamentalists- like Glenn Beck, etc to say that charity should be given voluntarily by those with more means. Of course, the great depression proved that would never happen.
    It is also a common mystake that funies make to claim we are a Christian Nation.
    Nothing can be further from the truth. We are a nation with a lot of Christians, but again, our government is a secular government with a secular constitution.
    If not for the first amendment all the competing Christian sects would have been in a perpetual war for control of the government.

    If the founders had been strict fundamentalists, they could have merely used the bible as a founding document.
    The reason that would never work is that the laws in the bible would be a nightmare to ever try to enforce. It is so rife with contradictions that basing juresprudence on it would be insane.

    A democracy with social programs does not a socialist government make.

  14. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 7:32 pm #

    I see that part 1 of the Socialist free purity pledge didn’t get posted, so here is it.
    When you sign this I will know that you are sincere about your silly rant against social programs:

    Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
    I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
    I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
    Social Security
    Medicare/Medicaid
    Unemployment Insurance
    State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
    Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
    US Postal Service
    Roads and Highways
    Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
    The US Railway System
    Public Subways and Metro Systems
    Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
    Rest Areas on Highways
    Sidewalks
    All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009federal senate appropriations–http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf)
    Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
    Public and State Universities and Colleges
    Public Primary and Secondary Schools

  15. Joe Shlabotnik December 15, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    “So, Are rights given to us, or are they from God?”

    You must be kidding!?

    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    People….We………..
    We decide what are rights are.

    Also important to remember that seven of the Ten Commandments are not enshrined in any US Laws as they would be unconstitutional to enact.

  16. Geno Castagnoli December 15, 2010 at 10:23 pm #

    Eric wrote:
    Geno,
    Absolutely not! You have to to watch Godonomics and get the truth about what God says concerning economy.

    *******
    Geno answers:
    Recall, I pointed out VOLUNTARY socialism is what Jesus demands and that the evil comes with INvoluntary state mandated socialism He instructs us to give up our wealth to aid the poor…. which is what socialism is all about:
    “it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (Matt 19:24, Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25)

    Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven

    Mark 10:21 go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven

    Luke 18:22 sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven

    Seems pretty clear to me…… Recall, I pointed out there are “communistic organizations that have operated for centuries.” Understanding communism and Marxism are different things, members of the Dominican order (founded in 1214) take vows of obedience, poverty and chastity. They forego ownership of personal property and the order will provide for thier needs. Sounds a lot like “from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs” to me.

    Again, the key point is this is a VOLUNTARY committment that is NOT imposed by government.

  17. Tim Matter December 15, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    Do you have an outline of the economic points made without me buying the video? The advise could be good or bad, and Bible verses cherry picked to support that advise and ignore contradictory verses. I think it is called “Proof Texting”. The Bible says many different things, but it does tend to favor socialistic ideas.
    One verse I do like concerning those who could work, but don’t, is 2 Thessalonians 3:10 “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.”
    I could make a good case in favor of social security, but in a different way than it is thought of now. “Pay as you go” best describes it.

    • Steve Gage December 16, 2010 at 9:08 am #

      Tim,

      You can watch clips for free on our website, and also on YouTube.

  18. Don Carr December 15, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    The American economy seems to be in very very very grave circumstances. Almost for certain the country will be bankrupted and turned over to the IMF. From what I gather the system is already bankrupt, even taxing citizens at 100% of their income will not cover the debt. There is no way out, and as time goes on the grave will be dug deeper and deeper. China will gladly arise as the future economic engine of the world. America is quite simply “not required” or N/A in the NWO. Perhaps it will be turned into a park?

    The state of the churches is another dire cause: ministers regurgitating propaganda dished out of the NWO controlled seminaries. Even the Hovinds with a solid science background seem unable to break free from the church of wishful thinking mentality. The truth is there for those who will look.

    Who’s going to speak out for the millions of people being ripped off of their spiritual inheritance in the brainwashed churches?
    Who’s going to speak out for all the athiests being ripped off of their spiritual inheritance?

    This is a sad state of affairs…

  19. Alfred Russell Wallace December 15, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    science
    noun
    the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment : the world of science and technology.

  20. Alfred Russell Wallace December 15, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    My view of science is not distorted, I rely upon unbiased and systematic study of the natural and physical world through observation and experiment.

    You don’t. You believe in your dusty old book.

    Don’t call what you do “Science”. You only serve to mock the term entirely.

  21. John Black December 16, 2010 at 12:09 am #

    You’re clueless Eric. That video / card is just awful, I bet you don’t know the first thing about Marx and yet you write “Inspired by the work of Karl Marx” followed by a bunch of silly provocative text. Get real.

  22. John Bebbington December 16, 2010 at 2:34 am #

    Naive nonsense, of course. What Eric is to evolution Chad is to economics. The one country doing very well indeed out of American “socialism” is, er, that communist but unstable country China.

    What happened to non-taxing Israel? It was invaded and destroyed by taxing Rome. It isn’t high taxation which could destroy the States but its inability to control expenditure and the printing of dollars to keep the banks afloat.

    As for the New World Order, don’t make me laugh. One only has to look at what is happening to the Euro area to know that New World Disorder is more likely. Meanwhile, the States has used up nearly all its natural energy resources while its energy-gobbling corn-producing soils of Iowa get rapidly thinner . Then what?

    I know it will be a shock to the system but it looks like the Hovind grandchildren one day will have to get out into the real world, buy a horse or two and start ploughing to produce something more useful than their grandparent’s education-lite corn-poneconomics.

  23. andrew Ryan December 16, 2010 at 6:39 am #

    Eric: “Socialism is the result of evolutionary thinking”

    That’s an odd assertion to make. The closest economic system to evolution is undeniably free-market capitalism. In fact, the phrase ‘survival of the fittest’ was originally coined to apply to free-market capitalism, where only the successful companies thrive, and the failures are allowed to die off and go bust.

    Socialism would be closer to artificial selection.

  24. andrew Ryan December 16, 2010 at 6:46 am #

    By the way, I’m surprised to see Eric commenting here, as I always assumed that he doesn’t read the comments. I can’t count the number of times a simple, straight rebuttal or question is posted to one of his or Kent’s blogs, and no reply is ever given. For example, someone asking Kent in the previous blog for an example of a science book that states there is no life after death. In fact several people asked for a cite and none were provided.

    Again, Kent’s “SCIENTISTS’ QUOTES ABOUT EVOLUTION” blog of 7 September, he claimed that in 1959 Sir Arthur Keith said: “Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable”.”

    In the very first comment, I pointed out that Sir Arthur Keith had been dead several years by 1959, and I asked for a cite for the quote. None was ever provided. This was the VERY FIRST comment after the blog. Were you just ignoring the request, or were you just confident that the people who like reading these quotes are not even slightly bothered by whether they are fabricated or not?

  25. andrew Ryan December 16, 2010 at 6:49 am #

    “Are rights given to us, or are they from God?”

    If the government doesn’t give you the right to vote, then plain and simple you do not have that right. It doesn’t matter if you think that a supernatural entity has given you a right, if it is not enforced by the state, you do not have that right.

    Whether we all agree that a person SHOULD have a right is a different matter.

  26. John Bebbington December 16, 2010 at 9:42 am #

    Stephen,

    Don’t you know your bible? Jesus told the rich man to sell all and give the proceeds to the poor.

    There is no record of Jesus giving any money to anybody. He even made a fish cough up and a widow give him her last two cents. That doesn’t make him much of a philanthropist.

    And after he rose from the dead who gave him some new threads to wear?

  27. Geno Castagnoli December 16, 2010 at 9:54 am #

    David McCrea wrote:
    Geno, you would take my rights away in a heartbeat if you could
    *********
    Geno answers:
    You couldn’t be more wrong. As a military veteran with 12 1/2 years service, I spent much of my life defending your rights.

    David wrote:
    because as a committed atheist,
    ***********
    Geno answers:
    Again, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m on record here as pointing out I’m Catholic. Now, I realize Catholics are frowned upon by many who participate in this forum but the last I checked, we do believe in God.

    David wrote:
    you believe rights are granted by men and not God.
    *********
    Geno answers:
    I swore an oath to defend this principal with my life if necessary….
    “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

    I respecfully suggest before you go out on a limb making so many unfounded, incorrect, and personally offensive accusations you should get the facts.

  28. Jennifer Preston December 16, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    Andrew Ryan Wrote
    “By the way, I’m surprised to see Eric commenting here, as I always assumed that he doesn’t read the comments. I can’t count the number of times a simple, straight rebuttal or question is posted to one of his or Kent’s blogs, and no reply is ever given. For example, someone asking Kent in the previous blog for an example of a science book that states there is no life after death. In fact several people asked for a cite and none were provided.

    Again, Kent’s “SCIENTISTS’ QUOTES ABOUT EVOLUTION” blog of 7 September, he claimed that in 1959 Sir Arthur Keith said: “Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable”.”

    In the very first comment, I pointed out that Sir Arthur Keith had been dead several years by 1959, and I asked for a cite for the quote. None was ever provided. This was the VERY FIRST comment after the blog. Were you just ignoring the request, or were you just confident that the people who like reading these quotes are not even slightly bothered by whether they are fabricated or not?”

    I would like to know this too.

  29. Eric Hovind December 16, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    Geno,

    Every scripture you referenced there was referring to one man that is known as the Rich Young Ruler (RYR) in the Bible. You are misinterpreting those verses to mean that Jesus was speaking to everyone in those passages. He was revealing to the RYR that there was still something in his heart that was keeping him from coming to Christ. Those passages do not tell every Christian that they must sell everything they have and give it away. There are scores of examples in scripture that demonstrate personal property. Just look at the 10 commandments. “Do not steal your neighbors….”, “Do not covet your neighbors…” These imply personal property ownership!

    Look in 1 Samuel 8 where God warns against having a king. God tells Samuel to warn the people that the king will take, your,…. your,….. your,…. your….

    God is all about Personal property.

    Seriously Geno, before you spout off for God you should really understand Him and what His word says. If you want to see what God really says about economics then you should watch Godonomics.

    There are tons of free videos on godonomics.com.

    Eric

  30. Eric Hovind December 16, 2010 at 3:33 pm #

    Geno,

    BTW, Steve is right, nowhere are we preaching a Prosperity Gospel! Matter of fact Chad makes fun of those preachers in one of the sessions.

    Eric

  31. andrew Ryan December 16, 2010 at 3:42 pm #

    “Seriously Geno, before you spout off for God you should really understand Him”

    Equally you should understand evolution, Marxism and socialism before you spout off about them.

  32. Geno Castagnoli December 16, 2010 at 4:02 pm #

    @ Eric Hovind:
    Don’t misunderstand. I recognize the right to own personal property as well as God’s establishment of that right in the commandments.

    However, you said:
    “God is all about Personal property”

    I disagree…. Jesus is much less about personal property and acquisition of it than He is about serving our fellow man. For every example you can give of Jesus supporting personal property, I bet I can give 3 where He instructs us to serve others…. even at the expense of our own property and the need to sacrifice of ourselves.

    Oh yeah… I don’t know what I could have said that you would have taken to mean I thought you were advocating a “Prosperity Gospel.” As far as I can tell, CSE runs a fairly “lean machine” compared to many other Christian Ministries.

  33. Don Carr December 16, 2010 at 8:11 pm #

    The 10 commandments are NOT about personal property. Good grief.

  34. Alfred Russell Wallace December 17, 2010 at 12:50 am #

    Eric,

    I find it interesting that you’re upset with the government and “evolutionary” inspired socialism given CSE history. I wonder how you reconcile the theft of taxpayer money which your ministry has been involved in. I think you should write a new blog about the 8th Commandment. Do you think that people who violate this commandment have to endure hell? Is it just the guilty party or the whole ministry that would be implicated?

  35. David Ray December 17, 2010 at 6:45 am #

    Eric,

    What little credibility you had is rapidly declining as you continue to ignore our requests that you back up you and your dad’s claims.

    See my request and the request of others in the “Lie” thread. Also see the posts by Andrew and Jennifer above.

    To supporters of Eric and Kent. Please note their refusal to provide one single citation to support their claims.

  36. Joe Shlabotnik December 17, 2010 at 8:23 am #

    I see that none of the Christian defenders of Godnomics and of ending all government social programs haven’t stepped up to the plate and signed the “Socialist-Free Purity Pledge” yet.

    What’s goin’ on with that?

  37. andrew Ryan December 17, 2010 at 9:54 am #

    Doesn’t having a national army count as socialism? You’re using my tax dollars to pay for it, right? How is that any different from paying for a national health service? Both are protecting the citizens at the citizens’ expense.

    Increasing taxation is a difference of degree, not of kind.

  38. Stephen Holshouser December 17, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    John Bebbington,

    Do you have to give someone currency to be a philanthropist? Money itself does nothing for people… it is what is purchased with money that is of use to people.

    Jesus fed thousands of people. His life has affected billions more for good.

    John, can you name one person that has done more good for humanity than Jesus Christ?

  39. Jennifer Preston December 17, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    David Ray,

    Thank You

  40. Jennifer Preston December 17, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    I also note that Julie Collins, nor anybody else, has replied to the post on the previous blog “fossils don’t talk” in which I explain precisely what a Scientific Theory is and precisely how evolution follows this. I also have a couple more examples of evolution making predictions and testing them.

    And before any of you comment on the word “prediction”, if you’ll read my post on the previous blog, you’ll see that the word “predition” in a Scientific Theory means predicting observations, not the future.

    I therefore find it rather funny that this CSE and all its followers deny that evolution is science and then can’t even reply to somthing so simple as explaining how evolution can make predictions about observations and that you can test those predictions which places it firmly in the realm of Science.

  41. Jeff Brace December 17, 2010 at 11:27 am #

    David: You just need to read their website and artiicles. But you are only interested in taking things out of contxt and turning it into your own meanings. God is not mocked and neither are His people. Why are you even here? If your position is so true why even take the time to write here? Oh, I know. You want to stop the crazy people who believe in a God. every word we write is a testiment to your hate and need to be your own God.

  42. Alfred Russell Wallace December 17, 2010 at 11:57 am #

    >Jeff Brace
    >December 17th at 6:27 am
    >That was completely rediculous Alfred. Your twisty raod of definition is a farce. No one explains mutation this way except you I guess

    From a dictionary:

    mutation
    noun

    2 the changing of the structure of a gene, resulting in a variant form that may be transmitted to subsequent generations, caused by the alteration of single base units in DNA, or the deletion, insertion, or rearrangement of larger sections of genes or chromosomes.
    a distinct form resulting from such a change.

  43. Mark James December 17, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    The previous thread has closed so I’m posting this here. Hope that’s OK.

    Hi John,

    You wrote “Evolution is not the mutation of the genome in any particular individual organism. The species evolves when a beneficial mutation becomes fixed within the breeding population.”

    But the beneficial mutation has to start in one individual organism. The implication otherwise is that the same mutation happens in more than one organism in the breeding population at the same time. The chances of this happening are so miniscule that evolution would be impossible (even more impossible than it already is).

    You also asked me to define the term “coherent” information. My definition would be any sequence of base pairs in DNA that can be interpreted within the cell to produce a specific, beneficial outcome (such as the assembly of a protein). Probably needs work but it’s an OK starting point.

    By the way, when compared to the timing of the post, your “getting dark” comment would suggest that you, too, are in a very different time zone to the blog.

  44. Mark James December 17, 2010 at 1:17 pm #

    Hi Alfred,

    You wrote “Dark matter and quantum fluctuations produced the big bang” and “there are many credible theories about the necessary nucleotides forming based on the old volcanic earth.”

    Theories are not, and will never be, extraordinary evidence of anything. And, by the way, I know what abiogenesis is and if you go back and read that part of my post you will see that I did not even mention evolution.

    You also wrote “I completely disagree. We DON’T like to think things happen by chance.”

    I didn’t expect you to agree, for goodness sake! I was just pointing out that there was an alternative.

    Then you wrote “Then sir, you frighten me. You would rather be the suicide pilot on 9/11 believing that you’re going to get your 72 virgins rather than the rational person on the plane trying to fight them to save innocent lives.
    This statement shows how twisted you have become as a result of your faith.”

    No Alfred, this just shows your remarkable ability to twist around words and distort their meaning.

    Your final statement is interesting though “Faith kills. You can’t say the same for rational thought.”

    Where in this statement do you place Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and a host of other mass murderers?

  45. John Bebbington December 17, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    When it comes to Godonomics I might be more impressed with the arguments if CSE had ever produced a set of accounts to show how it had spent its money – especially with respect to charitable causes.

    The lesson of history is that when it comes to money, you can’t trust anybody.. Not that CSE were not scrupulously honest but that transparency is all important.

    Some ministries publish their accounts and some don’t. Personally, I would never give a penny to the latter group.

  46. Mark James December 17, 2010 at 1:53 pm #

    John and Alfred,

    I repeat, natural selection does not cause evolution. It is a part of the process of evolution but it is not the cause. Natural selection is a quality control mechanism that decides which of the changes that have occurred will be passed onto the next generation. Note: the changes have already occurred.

    Whatever mechanism supposedly causes evolution has to be able to make changes to the DNA molecule. But not just changes, the mechanism has to be able to build DNA into the molecules we see today. No reputable evolutionist would suggest that the DNA molecules started out as complex as we now know them. At some stage in evolutionary history the information for arms, legs, eyes, etc has to have been added. And, much as you (Alfred) don’t like the idea, evolution requires that this information can only have been added by chance.

    We do not know of any such mechanism. Mutations make changes to the genetic material already available. They can even be beneficial at times. But they do not add information in any coherent (there’s that word again) form.

  47. Mark James December 17, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    And now to your last post Alfred,

    You wrote “Imagine you have children. They are a combination of you and your wife’s DNA. Mutated together. This is called a mutation in the gene code.”

    If I needed proof that you don’t understand the scientific theories you quote, then this is it!

    Mutation is a failure of DNA repair. DNA undergoes chemical change, especially when being replicated, and changes that are not repaired result in mutation.

  48. John Bebbington December 17, 2010 at 11:51 pm #

    Jeff Brace wrote in the previous thread: “That was completely rediculous Alfred. Your twisty raod of definition is a farce. No one explains mutation this way except you I guess”.

    No, Jeff. You need to read a book or two on evolution written by knowledgeable biologists rather than the AIG tripe you uncritically consume. If you don’t understand (which I suspect you don’t) the ridiculous error in Kent’s constantly-repeated mantra “I’ll believe in evolution when a dog gives birth to a non-dog” then you have a great deal of foundational work to do before you will start to grasp the basics.

    If I wrote ‘I’ll believe in christianity when Jesus becomes the devil” you would think that my understanding of the religion was wanting. But, from the content of your posts, that’s just where you are in your understanding of evolutionary theory.

    Educate yourself.

  49. Mike Dee December 18, 2010 at 1:20 am #

    It’s hard to really believe that all this isn’t really just some kind of joke, if we all didn’t know better. You guys really need to grow up.

  50. Don Carr December 18, 2010 at 1:35 am #

    Does anyone know much about the solar flare activity in the late 1800’s. Apparently strong electrical signals were induced in the telegraph lines. Some speculate that were this solar flare activity to arise today it would devastate sensitive electronics. Would likely shut down food transportation leading to mass starvation…

    Seems a more important topic that tax details. I’m sure the Hovinds did what they felt was right regarding taxes.

    And underground cities. Are these really being built in the expectation of a catastrophe or just a sham?

    And does the above tie in with the evolution hoax?

    There seems to be a big story emerging tying together science, religion and history. Anyone know the whole picture?