Eric Hovind and Paul Taylor welcome special guest Dr. G. Charles Jackson in the August 18, 2011 episode of Creation Today. Dr. G. Charles Jackson has spoken on many college campuses about creation versus evolution, as well as taught sciences at several high schools and colleges around the country. In the first half of the show Dr. G. Charles Jackson touches on the topic of attending a secular vs. Christian college. More specifically, he speaks about the struggles students today may face on their college campus, whether it be a secular or Christian college.
The second half of the show deals with answering statements that evolutionists swear by. Are these statements really as “fool proof” as we’ve been made to think? Is there any hope for students who believe in creation, God, and wish to study at a biblically sound institution? Find out this and much more on today’s exciting episode of Creation Today with special guest Dr. G. Charles Jackson.
Eric Hovind: From the CTN studio in Pensacola, Florida, this is Creation Today where we believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate from the very beginning and we’re not ashamed to say so. I’m one of your hosts Eric Hovind,
Paul Taylor: and I’m Paul Taylor, We’re here every episode to answer your questions on the Bible and on science, to look at what happens in Creation Today, and why it matters to you.
Eric Hovind: We are joined today by special guest Dr. Charles Jackson from Creation Truth Foundation. You can look him up online creationtruth.com. And we’re gonna answer some questions about science and look at what’s going in college campuses around the nation.
Eric Hovind: Well welcome to today’s show where we’re discussing creation versus evolution, science and the bible, covering what’s going on in creation, like Paul said, and why it matters. We’re with Dr. Charles Jackson from Creation Truth Foundation, you can look him up at creationtruth.com. He works with Dr. Thomas Sharp has been a little bit of your background. you’ve taught high school sciences, college level sciences, been, speaking on the creation versus evolution subject for the last eight years, a man that needs no introduction, [laughter] Dr. Charles Jackson, thanks so much for joining us.
Dr. Jackson: Sure. [Laughter] So, so where we go now?
Eric Hovind: Well, I wanna know what’s going on on college campuses today, we talked a little bit, if you missed the last show, the last Creation Today show, we, talked a lot about what’s going on, and what you can do, so you gotta make sure and look at that episode, but let’s cover real quick, uh, the difference between a Christian college and a secular college when it comes to the teaching of..of origins of creation of Genesis. How are they different, we can kinda take it from there.
Dr. Jackson: Well I’ve often been grateful that none of my actual schooling, and I went to many different colleges, ever was at a Christian college, because I knew I couldn’t trust my professors when they spoke on anything that had to do with evolution or God existing, things like that. But if you’re a student at a Christian college, you’re not sure whether you’re in with a bunch of Pharisee types or not. You know people who do lip service to the Lord, with their mouth they speak fondly of God but their heart is far from Him, as the Bible says. And there are people who don’t know Jesus, don’t know the Lord from a hole in the ground, who are teaching about truth to Christian students in Christian schools. I know it’s a harsh thing for me to say, but I’ve met them, I know them, and they are actually enemies of the Bible and of the truth.
Paul Taylor: It’s an interesting point that, you know, I was talking to David Wheaton at one point and he said that in many ways he thinks it would often be preferable for a Christian student to go to a secular college than to go to one of these compromising Christian colleges where the impression is that everything is going to be Biblical and so on but in actual fact they are..can be the enemies of the faith.
Dr. Jackson: There are some students that are strong enough, and I
Paul Taylor: Yes
Dr. Jackson: that can go to a compromising Christian college, and maybe they’re called there as a mission field or to stand for the truth, they will have a hard time, but some of them are ready for that kind of training, it’s on the job training on a battlefield, it’s rough on a secular campus of course, again, the big thing with the immorality is very difficult. I mean I often have Christian young men come to me and ask for prayer for how difficult it is, and now it’s begun to be the Christian young women are also saying this is very difficult for me, the temptations are bad on my campus. But that is also at some Christian colleges, too, even though the faculty will pretend it’s not there.
Paul Taylor: See, some of our viewers may find this strange, now we’re saying there’s certain Christian colleges that we would have difficulties with and many viewers might be thinking well that is this, you know surely if it’s got a Christian basis it’s going to be fine. What are the sorts of dangers that the students are coming up with in these colleges, what are the problems that they’re facing?
Dr. Jackson: Well there is an actual deliberate effort to, to drag Bible believing young people away from the Bible and bring them into some sort of a pseudo-intellectual “oh I’m smarter than to believe the Bible” sort of a mentality. It’s filled with pride, knowledge puffeth up, it’s filled with the “hath God really said..? Did God really mean six days?” It’s filled with the same lie that the devil crafted for Eve and brought down Eve and Adam, our brilliant un-fallen first parents. The students are being put through in many Christian colleges a program that is consciously designed to make them into twice the devil their teachers are. Exactly what Jesus said about the teachers at the Christian colleges when he was there, the Pharisees’ training centers.
Eric Hovind: You know I was at a “Christian college” that just a few months ago and went there basically for a debate between the teachers of the biology and things like this where they had no their foundation was not God’s word. They would present it as though it was, but it was not because they questioned everything about God’s word. They questioned whether we could know truth. That was the very first thing we got into when we were in this classroom was can we know truth. And here you have the professors would not say a word to me right there if I tried to interact with them. You know, so I interacted with the students and things like this, and the students were saying no there is, you know, he taught us there’s no such thing as truth. And of course I’m asking is that true? How do you know this? And so, “Christian colleges” can be very dangerous. Some of them. What are some good ones though, what are some ones that..I mean surely, hopefully you guys don’t mind us naming a few names of some college that we would say hey the great great, they got this foundation right anyway.
Dr. Jackson: There are many, many. Like there are some denominations that aren’t following the Word but many pastors in those denominations, many congregations are on fire for the Word, on fire for the Lord, love the Lord, that are ok still. Some have withdrawn from their denominations because of that, but they are all still Christian schools, and Christian might be in their name, many of them that are sticking solid. Some of them I’ve worked with and I investigated. Some of them I know that they have sheeps in..wolves in sheep’s clothing in there. Johnson Bible College in Johnson, Tennessee, near Knoxville Tennessee is still very solid in the Word. Central Christian College of the Bible in Moberly Missouri, they do only have one science class there, but they’re sticking solid with the Bible, and those are two in that particular denomination. Cedarville University, Cedarville Ohio, just opened a graduate program in Geology with John Whitmore teaching he’s I’ve edited works he’s done, I’ve seen some of his materials, taught with him from the platform, he’s one of the few creation speakers that has it all, and he’s an excellent writer, a brilliant researcher, and a great teacher. I mean, [Laughter] you know it’s hard to get that all in one, he’s the head of the department, I have a high opinion of this brother in Christ. And there at that school and there are many others like that. Christ is King, and they do say there’s truth. Because if you say there’s no such thing as truth, I mean, Jesus said “ I am the Truth”
Eric Hovind: Yeah, exactly
Dr. Jackson: and “Thy Word is true”, you know, and these professors say there’s no such thing as truth, if they walk out in front of the street and accidentally a bus is coming, suddenly truth exists!
Eric Hovind: Yeah this is really gonna happen right here
Dr. Jackson: So they’re hypocrites. They are hypocrites when they say there’s no such thing as truth. When they balance their checkbook, all of a sudden there’s truth. When they expect the right change back, when they buy stuff in New York suddenly there’s truth. When they walk out in front of a Mack truck, suddenly there’s truth. You see, it’s only in the make-believe world of their classroom where they just pump up some little fluffy cloud of pretend intellectualism and then sell it to their students as superiority. That angers me. That angers me as an academician, as a you know I tell students that I got four college degrees and I’m a lifetime member of MENZA, the genius club [Laughter] and I only do that like Paul says you know I’m a Roman citizen you know I got my Pharisee license
Eric Hovind: Just so you know yeah
Dr. Jackson: Just so you know and I believe this book just like the students. I say I believe this same book just like you do and and so take heart. But watch out for those sheep, those wolves in sheep’s clothing
Eric Hovind: Yeah I love that passage “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit
Dr. Jackson: Vain deceit
Eric Hovind:…after the traditions of the men, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. We need to be following the works of Christ in this foundation. I love it that you’re somebody who’s been there done that and this is your foundation.
Dr. Jackson: Well, if this foundation had cracks in it, if it had ever slipped while I was standing on it, I would burn it. If it has ever, ever, if I catch this book in a lie, and you know the bible says to test, I always tell audiences too, we have the only book of faith that commands us to question our faith, “test me, try me, taste and see if the lord is not good”
Eric Hovind: Well I wanna talk about science cause that’s your background. We’ll do that, right after this
Paul Taylor: Welcome back, you’re watching Creation today with me Paul Taylor and Eric Hovind. And we’ve been talking to Dr. Charles Jackson from Creation Truth Foundation. You can find their website at creationtruth.com. And we’ve been having a fascinating discussion about colleges, about Christian colleges, about so called Christian colleges, we mentioned of course a list of Christian colleges that we said were good. That was not an exhaustive list, please don’t think that we’ve named every good Christian college around. There are many others, and so do check them out. And there are many that are sticking firm to biblical truth, but it has to be said there are many that are not sticking firm to biblical truth. And of course we’ve been influenced lately, haven’t we, by the publications of Ken Ham with his book Already Compromised, for example, where he looks
Eric Hovind: Oh yeah, Already Gone and Already Compromised, two great publications
Paul Taylor: Yes particularly Already Compromised looks at the whole issue of Christian colleges and so on. But I think it’d be good to move the discussion on now and lets have a look at some of science areas. Because, you know, you’re a scientist, a highly qualified scientist so it’d be good to take some of the sort of questions that we get on that. And one of the things that has been very notable in the sort of Facebook discussions that people are having and so in is that quite often there’s this bait and switch method people are atheists and evolutionists are wanting a sort of different definition of evolution the definition of evolution seems to be changing somewhat. What sort of definitions are evolutionists giving for their theory at the moment and how are they using
Dr. Jackson: What there calling it today
Paul Taylor: How are they using that definition?
Dr. Jackson: Well, usually the biggest problem, I think, is that they are equating natural selection with evolution. But see because natural Because survival of the fittest is true, the fit do survive better, clearly evolution must be true, and that’s it’s totally like that’s like saying evolution predicts the sky is blue, so since the sky is blue, evolution is true. Ipso facto ergo, and that’s just..
Eric Hovind: It’s a logical fallacy
Dr. Jackson: I mean it could be hundreds of other ways the sky could’ve gotten blue, hundreds of other ways, if God actually created the whole world and universe and life on this planet as it says in Genesis 1 through 3 then the sky would still be blue, [laughter] that’s the problem. So this is ridiculous, and their whole issue of just saying that how everybody’s different every generation. Genetic drift, and changes in allele frequencies. Most high school and college textbooks will say since our definition of evolution is a change in allele frequencies, evolution has occurred. Like with the peppered moths in England.
Eric Hovind: Yeah, yeah, which I love, just bringing up that one, that’s the one that’s taught as here’s proof of evolution, the whole experiment was a fake. They glued dead moths to the tree in order to take the pictures that they took and changing from, okay, maybe it can change from white to black you know through the generations
Dr. Jackson: Well, it actually didn’t
Eric Hovind: Oh it didn’t do that?
Dr. Jackson: No it didn’t, what is, if you look in every textbook here’s what they show, they show these pictures or drawings of the moths fluttering around a tree and then after the magic revolution you see these moths fluttering around a tree. But in both pictures, there are some white ones and some black one
Eric Hovind: Yea, [Laughter]
Dr. Jackson: See, so the gene for black is more rare before the evolution occurs. The allele, the version of the gene for the black instead of the white colored moths, the allele for black is more rare. But it’s there. After the evolution there’s lots more black ones and less white ones. I mean this is like saying if in a hundred years there’s more red-headed humans, that’s evolution
Paul Taylor: Amen [Laughter]
Dr. Jackson: Because you have had I didn’t pick you out on purpose but if you have had a change about how frequent a particular trait shows up, that’s evolution they say. Who would not believe in that? Who would be the ignoramus that would not believe in that? Obviously evolution is true. Just because in five generations we may have more red-headed people that does not mean we used to be monkeys. And so they extrapolate this way beyond the logic, it does, there’s not nothing that merits that kind of a statement. If that’s what evolution is, I believe, because I can see that, but we cannot see stuff like how did these little crustaceans floating around in the ocean turn into moths, how did that, that’s what evolution needs to say.
Eric Hovind: Now many times we take evolution and we define it in six different definitions we give six different definitions of evolution, and evolutionists just can’t stand this because it shows the absurdity. They say well hold on all of that isn’t really evolution whether we talk about cosmic evolution, the big bang, the origin of everything Oh no, that’s not evolution, that’s cosmology. And I point out you still have to believe in that don’t you? That’s how you think it all got started. You’ve got stellar and planetary evolution, chemical evolution, organic evolution, abiogenesis life from non-life
Dr. Jackson: Yeah that’s the one they hate for you to say
Eric Hovind: Yeah they really don’t wanna bring that up. They say that evolution only deals with life after it’s been formed. Is that true or is that false? Evolution for..if that is..if that’s really the truth what they’re saying then why is it every single college and high school biology textbook in the chapter of evolution starts with the origin of life? It always does, it’s step one. Where you gonna How you gonna evolve anything, and they call it chemical evolution, they call it inorganic evolution, then they call it organic evolution, and then they talk about the proteins and things floating around in the ocean and how membranes just wrapped around them and then the magic occurs and suddenly you’re off and running with evolution once you’ve got some bacteria that are actually alive
Eric Hovind: That’s a big deal
Dr. Jackson: But they don’t want you to ask about how that happened. It’s like pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, you know, the great Oz has spoken. And that’s irrational, and for rational people to be so irrational about what they’re teaching as truth to say no, no, no, we just pick up after the miracle of the origin of life, but then didn’t Louie Pasteur prove, this spontaneous generation of life, is absolutely untrue. The cornerstone of modern biology is biogenesis that life only comes from life. And they, I said, to the vice president of the Darwin Coalition once, we were just talking, and I said well you all believe in spontaneous generation, and he goes no we don’t, I said yes you do, you believe it happened at least once
Eric Hovind: Exactly
Dr. Jackson: And this is a smart man but it never occurred to him oh
Eric Hovind: I do believe that
Dr. Jackson: I, you know he had never heard anyone say you believe it happened once, don’t you? And it did, it’s true, but this is a “they do not like to retain God in their knowledge”, and so “professing themselves wise they became fools and having their foolish hearts darkened, God gave them over to a reprobate mind.” And now they can’t see. They’re like Paul with the scales on his eyes, they can’t see and I used to believe in evolution. You know, most creation scientists that I’ve met, teachers, educators, they, we were taught by evolutionists, and it’s not until really either you see the science information or if you’re really really into it you really have to, I’m sorry, you have to get saved to be delivered from this demonic delusion.
Eric Hovind: You know, second Timothy chapter two verses 23,24 and 25 my life verse is second Timothy two 22 “Flee also youthful lust with all righteousness, faith, charity peace within the call of the Lord out of a pure heart” and second Timothy two verses, let’s see here, 22 through 25, let me get to it, is just so powerful because verse 23 says “but foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing they do gender strives and the servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men able to teach patience” verse 26 “in meekness” what we were talking about last episode “instructing those that oppose themselves”, and this is where it’s really cool “if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.” What comes before the truth? Repentance. And that’s what you just said, it comes down to a salvation thing. It comes down to God saving us not only for eternity but saving our thinking right now. Well Dr. Jackson, I’m enjoying this. After this break we’re gonna talk more about the science, or lack thereof, behind evolution.
Eric Hovind: Welcome back to Creation Today where we’re talking to Dr. Charles Jackson of Creation Truth Foundation. A scientist that has for the last seven years, eight years been traveling and speaking on creation versus evolution, is in charge of the college campus ministry for Creation Truth Foundation. You can find them at creationtruth.com. We I really wanna finish the conversation on alleles, people saying that evolution is a change in allele frequency over time. We defined a couple different terms of evolution we break it down to six: cosmic, chemical, stellar and planetary, organic the origin of life, and then I we the last two are micro or macroevolution-big evolution, and microevolution-small evolution. So, address what is what are they trying to say when they define evolution as a change in allele frequencies over time? Sounds like they’re trying to use some big words to cover to make it sound like it’s intelligent. What is that and is that evolution?
Dr. Jackson: You’re right that evolution is often taught with big words, it’s and evolution teachers know that in order to teach evolution you have to shut down the thinking processes of the students right away. And so you must intimidate them with large words. If you can’t say it plainly, you know, that’s just bad science teaching
Eric Hovind: I always say you never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice
Paul Taylor: Yeah
Dr. Jackson: Ok [Laughter] but I mean if you can explain a concept to students and then tell them “oh and that’s called electromagnetic magnetism”, you know, or “oh and that’s called this” or It’s better to do that but that’s not how evolution is usually taught. As a teacher, and I train teachers how to teach science for six years, you’ve got to build on what they already know, and what’s familiar to them, and then bring in all this stuff. And you’ve got to first convince them that they are smart. I cannot teach someone who thinks they’re dumb. I have to convince them they’re smart. I’d spend three weeks doing that when I taught high school chemistry, because that was what was most needed. But in order to teach evolution you have to convince the audience they are stupid and that “I am the only smart one in the room”, you know, “just shut up and listen to me, I am the high priest. “
Eric Hovind: I know that’s gonna resonate with some of the students that are watching this right now because that is exactly what happens.
Dr. Jackson: Real teaching is bringing your students out and giving them the understanding “I am smart, I am capable, I am a thinker.” You’ve got to teach them who they are. But indoctrination is the opposite. You must try to suppress who they really are, and that they are smart, and that they are cognizant, they are thinkers, they have a mind, and you must then just feed them what you want.
Eric Hovind: So what is change in allele frequencies over time?
Dr. Jackson: Oh, well, allele everybody has heard the term genes. Genes are in our chromosomes, like you have a gene for red hair, brown hair, blue eyes, brown eyes, you know, genes that control skin color and tone and all kinds of things, height and all kinds of susceptibilities. Some families have genes they call a rectal gene which gives a sense..sort of a susceptibility to colon cancer. We all know that we’ve heard of the addictive genes. Well there are many genes for different traits, but a single trait can have many genes that apply to it. But there may be a category, one particular gene, and there might be many different versions of that gene. So what we’re talking about, when we’re taking about alleles, is the many version of the same gene. Blue eyed gene, brown eyed gene, green eyed gene, or Elizabeth Taylor’s, you know, violet eyed gene. [Laughter] You know It’s this it’s the same gene but different versions of it. Different flavors of the same gene. And so if we’re talking about the moths we’ve got the melanin we’ve got the Biston Betularia with the light color and the dark color and it’s just the same gene but it’s two different versions of it.
Eric Hovind: So when they say evolution is a change in allele frequencies over time, they’re basically saying it’s what gene frequency is prominent?
Dr. Jackson: Gene frequency makes it sound like we’re talking about radio signals or something
Eric Hovind: [Laughter] Yeah
Dr. Jackson: Frequent just means how often
Eric Hovind: Okay
Dr. Jackson: So, how often a particular allele shows up. How often a particular gene for a particular trait, in other words, how many blue eyed people are there in the population right now? How many white moths, how many black moths are there, how many people with red hair are present? How many lions
Eric Hovind: And that’s their idea this proves evolution?
Dr. Jackson: Well what they’ll say is if you wait a couple generations, maybe more of the population has this particular trait than before. But the trait was already there. See, evolution is supposed to explain how traits got there
Eric Hovind: Came about..Yeah
Dr. Jackson: Not how the tide of how many people got have that trait or how many members of a sheep herd have got that trait or not.
Eric Hovind: Well that ties into a question we’ve got
Paul Taylor: That’s right, one emailer called Georgia asked us can someone please describe or define the mechanism or barrier that prevents microevolution from becoming macroevolution? Because this sort of impression is given, I think, in evolutionary circles that if you see this particular change here, which we do observe, they’re not proofs that molecules have eventually turned into human beings.
Dr. Jackson: Trying to say that microevolution is just little evolution I wrote a whole essay on this on our website
Eric Hovind: Okay
Dr. Jackson: at creationtruth.com that and also in a book by Norbert Smith I wrote a chapter on that microevolution is not mini-evolution. It’s like a barrier between microevolution and macroevolution might as well ask what is the barrier between a frog being a frog or being a Mercedes Benz? [Laughter]
Eric Hovind: What’s keeping that from happening
Dr. Jackson: It’s absolutely apples and oranges. See, when they’re talking about macroevolution they’re talking about the origin of the species.
Eric Hovind: Right
Dr. Jackson: Right, they’re talking about new species being originated by new genes with new DNA, with new genetic information and new traits popping up because, otherwise, how could fish turn into people? Fish don’t have
Eric Hovind: Right
Dr. Jackson: all the things we have. How could fish turn into dinosaurs? Which is what they say happened. [Laughter] They need new genes with new genetic information, not just a shift in the frequencies. I mean you can you can have a fish that’s a little more orange than his friends, and over the centuries you’ve got more orange ones than before, but you don’t have any that turn into T-Rexes. None of those fish look more like a T-Rex, and if they did it would they’d only go just a few baby steps in that direction. Or, I guess, I don’t know, boxer dogs look a little T-Rex-y, but this idea that macroevolution is just an extrapolation of micro, that’s not true. The processes in microevolution are the processes of just re-shuffling the deck of genes
Eric Hovind: What’s already there
Paul Taylor: Yeah
Dr. Jackson: What’s already there, and dealing out a new hand to the next generation. You can shuffle and deal all you want a deck of regular playing cards if you’ve got, you know, kings and queens and spades, you’re not dealing out the old maid
Eric Hovind: Exactly it’s never gonna come out
Dr. Jackson: or an Uno card and that’s what evolution says must happen.
Eric Hovind: Wow
Paul Taylor: It is nevertheless that you can see that they like to come out with it. I was in a BBC debate with professor Steve Jones, professor of genetics at University College of London, and his example of evolution was antibiotic resistance in bacteria
Dr. Jackson: Oh wow
Eric Hovind: Ridiculous [Laughter] Well we could go on and on and on and if people do have questions, Dr. Jackson for you, they can reach you at creationtruth.com, right?
Dr. Jackson: Or G. Charles Jackson on Facebook
Eric Hovind: Oh, so Facebook if you do the Facebook thing G. Charles Jackson?
Dr. Jackson: Yeah
Eric Hovind: You, I’m sure, answer a lot of questions. You get to travel to college campuses and things like that. So, if you’d like to get in touch with Dr. Jackson to be able to have him at your college that’d be great. Well that is our show for today. This is Creation Today. If you have questions, send them in to Questions at creationtoday.org. Of course on Twitter and Facebook Facebook.com/creationtoday
Paul Taylor: Or tune in every episode to see if we’ve answered your questions. This program has been a production of God Quest Ministries
Eric Hovind: We’d like to thank Dr. Jackson so much for coming down and being a part of the show, and encourage you to study to show yourself approved workmen that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth.