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Should You Use the Bible to Prove the Bible? (Transcript)

This is a rush transcript from the “Creation Today Show,” released September 15, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Overview

In today’s episode of Creation Today hosts Eric Hovind and Paul Taylor answer questions regarding topics such as whether it’s possible to falsify biblical claims, the laws of thermodynamics and the gap theory. You won’t want to miss the abundance of information shared in this episode, as your Scriptural foundation will be certainly strengthened, and your excitement for God’s Word will grow even more.

Transcript

Eric Hovind: From the CTN studio in Pensacola, Florida. This is the Creation Today show, and we’re gonna be talking about that. I’m one of your hosts, Eric Hovind,

Paul Taylor: And I’m Paul Taylor, and on today’s show we’ll be discussing whether you can falsify biblical claims

Eric Hovind: Is it possible?

Paul Taylor: We’ll be discussing the laws of thermodynamics.

Eric Hovind: Whooh!

Paul Taylor: That should be great fun. And just like on the London Underground we’ll be minding the gap.

Eric Hovind: Oh, sounds fun! Remember, we believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate in every single detail. We’re not ashamed to say so. Enjoy the show.

[BREAK]

Eric Hovind: Welcome back to the Creation Today show, where we’re gonna be discussing today what is atheists’ greatest fear. All that, right after these announcements.

Paul Taylor: Yes, don’t forget please, during next March, March 16th and 17th, near Orlando in Florida, you can go to an absolutely amazing conference.

Eric Hovind: It’s gonna be incredible.

Paul Taylor: It’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be called the “Proof of God” conference. As I just said, near Orlando, Florida, twenty-twelve, in March.  And there’s gonna be some absolutely top-notch, amazing speakers.

Eric Hovind: Oh! Incredible speakers there.

Paul Taylor: The very best.

Eric Hovind: The very best.

Paul Taylor: In creationism, and we’ll be there as well.

Eric Hovind: And, we’re gonna be there too, it’s gonna be awesome!

Paul Taylor: Yeah.

Eric Hovind: We’ve got a great line up of speakers, don’t we?

Paul Taylor: There is gonna be Carl Kirby from Reasons for Hope Ministries,

Eric Hovind: Mark Spence of Way of the Master is gonna be there.

Paul Taylor: And our good friend Sye Ten Brueggencate will also be traveling down from Canada.

Eric Hovind: Yeah, so it’s gonna be a great conference. We want people to understand how to defend the God that absolutely exists.  And that’s what this conference is all about. The proof of God, strengthening your apologetic to defend the absolute God of the Bible.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: Hey, not to mention, we’ve got this Genesis Series that is kicked off and is just incredible. If you haven’t seen the trailer, you need to go to genesisseries.com and check that out and see the progress on that. What’s interesting is just here this past week Sevenfold Films is actually moved their organization to Pensacola and is set up to be able to work directly with us, and we are really excited about the work that God’s doing there, it’s just, it is so cool seeing what takes place in order to put together a 3D version of Genesis Chapters 1 through chapters 3.  It’s gonna be absolutely phenomenal.

Paul Taylor: And you mentioned the website genesisseries.com didn’t you already?

Eric Hovind: If I didn’t mention it, you can go to genesisseries.com, what’s that website again?

Paul Taylor: Genesisseries.com.

Eric Hovind: You ought to go check it out, genesisseries.com. Any other announcements?

Paul Taylor: I think we’ve covered those there.

Eric Hovind: Oh! We go and speak. Hey, if you’d like to have one of us come do a Creation Today  live event in your location, we’d be more than happy to come do that at your church or groups. So, call or email, and we can schedule that. You can go to creationtoday.org for more details.

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: Question number one, you ready to hit it?

Paul Taylor: Yes, and we’ve got a question here from Joshua, and it’s more of an accusation really than a question, but it’s quite hard hitting, so let’s go for it. He says, “Whenever you answer these questions, you turn directly to the Bible. Or you just assert that it’s part of a God-induced process. Isn’t this a priori? By asserting these thing on a preconceived notion that God indeed exists, and that the Bible is correct, you leave no direct means of falsification.” Guess I should just break into his question there, that’s something that’s often, a word that’s often used, isn’t it, in scientific hypothesis building. You build a hypothesis, and it’s supposed to be possible to falsify that hypothesis, so that people have something to work on.

Eric Hovind: Right, to determine if it’s true or not.

Paul Taylor: Yeah, so Joshua goes on there and he says, “Your replies are not, at least in my opinion, he says, empirically tractable. Thus, the ability, the inability to falsify. By what means based on your views could we falsify your claims?”

Eric Hovind: I love that this accusation, because it gets right of the heart of what we talk about all the time.

Paul Taylor: It’s a very interesting accusation actually, and it’s one that, if I could just drop a name for a moment.

Eric Hovind: Please, name drop.

Paul Taylor: You know, my good old friend, professor Richard Dawkins.

Eric Hovind: Oh yeah.

Paul Taylor: And in a debate that’s aired on BBC radio [indiscernible 00:04:20], he kept accusing me of that. He said, “Yeah..” At one point in the debate he said, “This man! Every time you say something to him, he keeps going back to the Bible!” [Laughter]

Eric Hovind: Why do you do that, Paul? Why do you keep going back to the Scripture in order to make your claims?

Paul Taylor: Because it’s necessary to go back to the Bible, that’s why. [Laughter]

Eric Hovind: That’s a pretty good reason.

Paul Taylor: Because it’s the foundation for everything we believe, and the point is, it is our presupposition. But what we need to understand as well is that people like Richard Dawkins and [indiscernible 00:04:48] like this question here, actually have their own presupposition.

Eric Hovind: That’s exactly right. And this really is atheists’ greatest fear, is that we as Christians will doggedly stick to the Bible. Can you say doggedly?

Paul Taylor: I think so. Yes. It’s better than saying cattedly.

Eric Hovind: It’s a dog…Cattedly…doggedly. We stick one hundred percent with God’s Word and what He says because that is the revealed word to us. That is where truth comes from. It is , as you said, our presupposition.  And so their fear in any argument is that you stick to God’s Word, because soon as we leave God’s Word, we have lost the debate, haven’t we?

Paul Taylor: We have, and you know, this is something that we really want to explain to you out there. Those of you who are supporters and you want to know how to, how to discuss these issues, how to debate these issues. And I come across so many Christian creationists, who are very very well meaning, but the first thing they start with is let’s hammer the evidence. And you know I even had someone criticizing this on our Facebook page, saying you know, I don’t wanna do this your way, I wanna do it this way. I want to present the evidence that will undermine immediately their argument. And in theory it sounds very good, and it’s done for well meaning purposes.

Eric Hovind: Yeah.

Paul Taylor: I understand why such people are doing these things, but it is the wrong way.  Because what you’re actually doing then, if you’re trying to present evidence to persuade that unbeliever, that God exists, and the Bible is true and the creation is right and evolution is false, what you are doing in effect is putting God on trial. Cause you present evidence to a judge, and it’s the judge then who makes a decision based on that evidence. That’s not what we should be doing.

Eric Hovind: You know, I know for several years I was very frustrated with the evidential conversion.  Cause I wasn’t, people were not converting to Christianity, and I’m throwing them all this evidence going why don’t you guys see the truth, and they would not, they refused, to see the truth. Jason Lyle hits is on the head in his book The Ultimate Proof of Creation, a great book that’s available at, you can get that at creationstore.org.

Paul Taylor: Creatinostore.org.

Eric Hovind: What’s that again?

Paul Taylor: It’s creationstore.org.

Eric Hovind: Creationstore.org, yes. That is a shameless plug [?]. On page 35 of this book, he outlines the unbeliever’s desire to get us to go to neutral ground. He wants us to go and say look, leave God’s Word, let’s talk about the science. Let’s talk about this on neutral ground. The problem is, there’s no such thing as neutral ground.

Paul Taylor: That’s right, as soon as you step off the Bible as your foundation, you haven’t gone on to neutral ground, you’ve gone on to the enemy’s territory. You’re arguing from their point of view. So you have actually conceded the argument. The whole point is, our declaration is that God’s Word is true. And as soon as step off that, you’ve conceded that maybe God’s Word isn’t true, because we don’t need it to make the argument.

Eric Hovind: So, unfortunately, what many of us do is we step into that neutral ground, and I remember trying to do this for years. Paul’s saying, ok, if they say I don’t believe the Bible is true then let’s the Bible aside and argue just the evidence. It’s doesn’t work, friend, I’ve got years, I’m telling you, of experience on it. That argument, that method just simply does not work.

Paul Taylor: Me too, and, you know, this is how so many of us as creationists have presented thing in the past. So you say, how can you falsify our claims? Well, you can’t  actually. Because the Bible is true. So there is going to be no falsification of the claim,  because it is the presupposition on which we build, and it is the ultimate proof of creation.

Eric Hovind: It really is the ultimate proof. And that’s what this comes down to. This is why we use this approach in talking to unbelievers. I love what you said there, Paul, you don’t go to the unbeliever with lots of evidence cause that puts them in the judge’s seat. Instead, we need to put them on trial, and put God, and let God continue to be the Judge that He is.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: And judge us for our sins. You know, a lot of people, go into the Scripture, though, you can talk about books like this. How do we know the Bible is true? A new book by Ken Ham and Bodie Hodge is..and I know you wrote a couple chapters in this.

Paul Taylor: I wrote two chapters in there.

Eric Hovind: You wrote a couple chapters that we’re gonna be talking about in the next couple segments, right?

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: Aww, ok, I jumped the gun on that. Well, that is a real good segment. We got a couple more questions we wanna get into. I want you to realize, the atheists’ biggest fear is that you will stick to God’s Word as your absolute ultimate authority. Don’t ever, ever leave your authority.  Trust in Jesus Christ, and what he’s said. We’ll talk about a couple more questions right after this.

[BREAK]

Paul Taylor: Welcome back. You’re watching Creation Today, with me, Paul Taylor, and Eric Hovind. And we’ve been talking about the Bible and its authority and how you need to rest on the authority of the Bible. And that’s the case with every sort of question you have, even questions that appear to be more generally scientific, and at first sight appear that they’ve got no scriptural basis to them.

Eric Hovind: Gotta continue to go to Scripture. I know in several past episodes, especially recently, we’ve discussed this in depth. How do you use this apologetic, how do you stick to God’s Word when arguing with an unbeliever that says “I don’t believe in God’s word”? And you can go to creationtoday.org to check out those episodes as we continue to discuss that. Alright?

Paul Taylor: Yes, and we had a couple of episodes with our good friend Sye Ten Brueggencate,

Eric Hovind: Yes.

Paul Taylor: so please look those up, because we went into the presuppositional apologetic approach, and its superiority really over the evidentialist apologetic approach.

Eric Hovind: And if you wanna see this approach in action,  I really encourage you to get the Unbelievable Debate series that Sye did, cause he really, he used this approach, he didn’t go based on evidence, he took the legs out from under the atheist Paul Baird’s worldview by showing him that nothing makes sense. He can’t have any absolute truth without the God of the Bible. And he lives his life based on the fact that there are no absolute truths. Otherwise, you couldn’t do anything, with absolute certainty. So, taking a drink of water, how do I know that water isn’t gonna change into something else? I gotta use faith, and I’m basing that on God and his Word, not on anything else.  That’s for sure.

Paul Taylor: Absolutely right, yes. I believe there may be some sort of conference coming up on a similar sort of subject.

Eric Hovind: There is. We’ve got a conference called Proof of God, I’m glad you mentioned that, Paul.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: Proof of God conference, it’s gonna be in Orlando, Florida, coming up on March 16th and 17th.

Paul Taylor: That’s right, cause we haven’t mentioned that for ten minutes.

Eric Hovind: No we haven’t, it is going to be good, so you’re gonna wanna make sure and check out  when it’s available, which it’s not right now, proofconference.com, proofconference.com, coming soon, to a website near you.

Paul Taylor: Well how about another question?

Eric Hovind: Alright, David writes and he says “I heard a recent debate, where an atheist said that the first law of thermodynamics proves that matter is eternal. That is was never created and that it will never be destroyed.  Can you comment on that, or direct me somewhere  on your website, or another website, to help me with this? Alright, so what about this second law, or excuse me, first law of thermodynamics?

Paul Taylor: Yeah, well I think…

Eric Hovind: What is the first law, first of all?

Paul Taylor: Well I think we should talk about the first law of thermodynamics, we should talk about the second law of thermodynamics.

Eric Hovind: Good idea.

Paul Taylor: Because they’re related, [Laughter] and people just don’t understand these terms, and it’s thermodynamics. Thermo meaning hot,

Eric Hovind: Heat, right.

Paul Taylor: If you don’t drop it. [Laughter] And dynamics meaning work. So it’s a relationship between heat and work. There used to be some old comic singers back in Britain who did a whole song called “The Second Law of Thermodynamics Song”.

Eric Hovind: Really?

Paul Taylor: Yeah, you can, find that,

Eric Hovind: I’m gonna have to YouTube that one, eh?

Paul Taylor: find that on YouTube, yeah, cause it’s hilarious.

Eric Hovind: I’ll check that out . I’m sure it’s as good as you’re telling me it is.

Paul Taylor: Well the first law of thermodynamics is that heat and work are equivalent. The idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but simply changes from one form to another. So, for example, supposing you’ve got a typical energy changing device, for example, an elastic band being stretched between the fingers.

Eric Hovind: Oh I like elastic bands being stretched.

Paul Taylor: Yes, that’s why I used this analogy [Laughter]. So that has got a form of energy in it, potential energy. And in fact there are certain people, I believe, who even have an extra way of doing it so there’s twice as much potential energy…

Eric Hovind: That’s correct.

Paul Taylor: On one side as the other.

Eric Hovind: If you haven’t learned the scientific way to shoot a rubber band, you’ve gotta get the magic tricks video available at creationstore.org, because we teach the scientific way to shoot it, and it goes four times farther than anybody else’s [Laughter], which has nothing to do what we’re talking about, go ahead, Paul.

Paul Taylor: Well that’s got potential energy in, because the elastic has been stretched. But it’s not moving it’s not doing anything. The energy is in the elastic by virtue of being stretched against the force. You let go of the elastic band, and the potential energy changes into movement energy. So, you haven’t lost energy, you haven’t gained energy, you haven’t lost it. There has simply been a change from one sort to the other. And basically every machine that we have is for that purpose.

Eric Hovind: To change the energy from one thing to another.

Paul Taylor: Yes, so you think of just a fire, for example, chemical energy in the wood or the coal that you’re burning, turning into heat energy.

Eric Hovind: Correct, ok.

Paul Taylor: So that’s the first law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics is related to it. It’s this, that actually of course that elastic band doesn’t keep moving forever.

Eric Hovind: Right, everything [indiscernible 00:14:54] disorder.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: Yeah.

Paul Taylor: And of course what happens is is that the elastic band will hit something and you’ll hear a sound and also maybe the elastic band has got very very slightly warm. If you have a really accurate thermometer, you may be able to measure that it’s just increased in temperature. But you can’t do anything with that very low temperature heat, but it’s there. The fire, not all the chemical energy from the coal gets turned into heat, there is some that’s wasted. Some of it is not heating you, it’s heating up the air around them, and so it’s, there’s always wasted energy. And that measure of wasted energy, which scientists like to call entropy, that’s what the second law of thermodynamics is a bout, which says that entropy is constantly increasing. That in every energy change there is always some wasted energy.  Not that it’s lost, but that’s it’s gone into a form that can no longer be used.

Eric Hovind: So, his question, is it possible that the first law of thermodynamics proves that matter is eternal?

Paul Taylor: Well the answer to that is, if you took God out of the equation, I guess it would.

Eric Hovind: [Laughter] Exactly.

Paul Taylor: But that’s the whole point. The whole point is it doesn’t prove any such thing, because these scientific laws are in place because God put them there.

Eric Hovind: Yeah.

Paul Taylor: And, of course, the one person who is not bound by those laws then is God.  And of course we use that as a very very strong evidence that Jesus was and is God.  You know, Jesus turned water into wine. So he turned molecules of H20 into molecules of C2H50H, where did this C molecule, where did the C atoms come from, the carbon atoms? Created from nothing, by the Creator God.

Eric Hovind: He can do that. And I hear this argument a lot. Really what it comes down to is, if you take God out of the equation, you must have matter itself be eternal. Matter is now your God, so you’re not at all an atheist by any stretch of the imagination, you’ve just put godlike properties on matter itself. Allowed matter to create things, allowed matter to exist forever, these are properties of God, so

Paul Taylor: Yes, and of course you can’t, as we were just saying, you can’t have the second law of thermodynamics without the first law of thermodynamics without the second law, so there’s always going to be this wasted energy. So therefore if matter had been eternal, you would’ve expected everything to run down by now anyway, so it wouldn’t happen.

Eric Hovind: Now here’s what the atheists say, they’ll say oh, well, those laws only apply to a closed system. And we are an open system. We’ve got energy coming in from the sun so because we’re an open system those laws don’t apply.

Paul Taylor: Yes, see evolution clearly defines this second law of thermodynamics.

Eric Hovind: Correct.

Paul Taylor: As you say, many atheists will say well that doesn’t apply because you’ve got the sun. But you see the sun’s energy is not, you can’t just utilize it, you can’t just pour energy in. You might as well say that I could just plug a simple plug and some wires into the socket and expect therefore, a vacuum cleaner to run by itself. I’ve gotta have the machine attached.

Eric Hovind: Correct.

Paul Taylor: It will therefore be able to do the tidying up. There’s gotta be that system. And when you look at the whole system as a whole, when you look at each individual molecule, you can see it’s a closed system. You cannot get the order there, the information, just by having the sun beating down on the earth.

Eric Hovind: Yeah, adding energy is destructive without a complex mechanism to harness that energy. I could throw a hand grenade into a room, it’s not gonna clean the room up, is it?

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: But if I put the energy through a complex mechanism, like a kid, which is pretty nice, I can put the kid in there and tell them “Ay, kid! Go clean your room.” Now you’re harnessing that energy, not to mention the fact, we’re not a closed system, or we’re not an open system, we’re a closed system.

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: Alright, whoa! Enough about the second law of thermodynamics. Another question right after this.

[BREAK]

Eric Hovind: Welcome back to the Creation Today show. Atheists cannot stand it when you stick with God’s Word. Make sure and do that, and don’t forget it.

Paul Taylor: And can we clarify as well from the last segment that we were not advocating throwing a little boy into a room after a hand grenade.

Eric Hovind: Oh no, not a hand grenade. It’s to clean the room.

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: And if he doesn’t, God tells you to do something about that. Spare the rod, spoil the child, something like that.

Paul Taylor: Then you throw the hand grenade….ok

Eric Hovind: Pull the pan on the boy, anyway. Bottom line.

Paul Taylor: Okay.

Eric Hovind: We got another question? [Laughter]

Paul Taylor: I think we ought to go to another question.

Eric Hovind: Let’s do that.

Paul Taylor: John writes this, he says “Not really a question, but a statement”

Eric Hovind: Uh-oh, is this a critique again?

Paul Taylor: It is really, he says “the word in Genesis chapter 1 verse 2, the word was, in the beginning was…”

Eric Hovind: Was, okay.

Paul Taylor: Well, actually it’s not, it’s in verse 2, isn’t it?

Eric Hovind: In the beginning was…okay yeah.

Paul Taylor: That the earth was without form and void.

Eric Hovind: Okay.

Paul Taylor: He says it’s the word “hayah”, and it should’ve been translated as “became.”

Eric Hovind: I’ve heard that.

Paul Taylor: The same word was used in Genesis chapter 19 verse 26, and he looks that up as the Strong’s number 1961, and also Strong’s number 5027, for those people who want to look those up.

Eric Hovind: You guys actually look those numbers up? You guys look at the Strong numbers? I like it, but most people, they don’t know about those, you guys even know what the Strong’s numbers are?

Paul Taylor: Well, I find them quite useful on, seriously, on software.

Eric Hovind: Exactly.

Paul Taylor: I find the book too difficult to use, to be honest [Laughter]. I do have a large Strong’s concordance, and I use it to be able to get up on to the top shelf [Laughter], but

Eric Hovind: Let me give you a hint: blueletterbile.com, go there. It’ll give you the Strong’s word. You click on that number that we’re, that he’s talking about.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: And it shows you the other places that same exact word is used in the Scripture. As well as definitions and things like that.

Paul Taylor: Yeah, that’s what it’s for, so that you can trace where a particular Hebrew or Greek word is used without having to know the Hebrew or Greek.

Eric Hovind: Correct.

Paul Taylor: Which is great.

Eric Hovind: I like that.

Paul Taylor: So the point, in Genesis chapter 19 verse 26 it’s talking about Lot’s wife turning around. He says she looked back and, his wife from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. And he says, quite right there that she became there it’s the word “hayah” and therefore says that that’s the word that should be in Genesis chapter 1 verse 2. So Genesis chapter 1 verse 2, he says, should be translated “and the earth became void and without form. Darkness was on the face of the deep” And therefore, if it became without form and void, that means there must be some gap there, that’s the point.

Eric Hovind: That’s what he’s trying to push in there, is the gap theory.

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: Okay.

Paul Taylor: So basically his argument is in favor of the gap theory. Now, really, what we need to look at here, and this is why it is useful to have the Strong’s numbers to some extent, because if you look at Strong’s number, you will see that the Hebrew word “hayah” does have a range of meanings. Now, you’re more of an expert on Hebrew that I am here.

Eric Hovind: Oh, of course, yes.

Paul Taylor: So I’m hoping you’ll jump in at this point, but if you have more than one meaning.

Eric Hovind: Okay.

Paul Taylor: One of those meaning is going to be the usual meaning.

Eric Hovind: Correct.

Paul Taylor: The first and most important meaning. Other meanings are ones that you would have only if the context demands it.

Eric Hovind: But the context would let you know exactly what that’s going to be.

Paul Taylor: Exactly, that’s the point.

Eric Hovind: Okay.

Paul Taylor: So, in genesis chapter 19 we can see that the context is, although the word “hayah” can mean was or became, in Genesis 19 verse 26 the context clearly is that she became. You could read it like this, that his wife looked back from behind him and she was a pillar of salt.

Eric Hovind: Correct.

Paul Taylor: And that would work, but clearly in our heads we understand that to mean she became a pillar of salt.

Eric Hovind: Cause she wasn’t, and now she is.

Paul Taylor: Yes, she wasn’t a pillar of salt, and now she is a pillar of salt.

Eric Hovind: Wow, sorry Lot.

Paul Taylor: So the context is “became”, but only because that’s the secondary meaning. You  can’t then take that as a secondary meaning and place it somewhere where the context says nothing about that.

Eric Hovind: Cause clearly where he’s talking about it coming from in Genesis, the first time it’s being used, “and the earth was without form and void”, it does not necessarily mean “became form and void”. The whole reason they wanna switch that to the word “became” is so that they can say it was all good and then it got destroyed, and hence that’s where the gap theory comes into play.

Paul Taylor: Yes, now you’ve got to understand as well that there is a presuppositional element in here, that’s where it always comes in.

Eric Hovind: That’s right.

Paul Taylor: The whole idea originated with Thomas Chalmers, it wasn’t there in, earlier than Thomas Chalmers’ date. Now Thomas Chalmers was a very godly man, and said a lot of great things. There’s an interesting anecdote out actually about our friend Todd  Friel, really hammering home some point that Thomas Chalmers had made in a conference.

Eric Hovind: I remember this, yes.

Paul Taylor: At a major conference that he was saying “yeah you can believe this fellow, cause he’s dead. And therefore you can trust everything he says” [Laughter] And afterwards one of the other speakers, who happened to be another friend of ours Ken Ham.

Eric Hovind: Yeah.

Paul Taylor: Took him aside and said “you know Thomas Chalmers invented the theory, don’t you? [Laughter]

Eric Hovind: Which Todd Friel does not agree with, so it was great.

Paul Taylor: So, the point is Thomas Chalmers…

Eric Hovind: Are you saying Todd was wrong? Todd Friel of Wretched Radio was wrong about something?

Paul Taylor: I’ll come back to you on that one…

Eric Hovind: OK, let’s talk about that one in a minute.

Paul Taylor: He’s bigger than I [Laughter]. But the point it that Chalmers had a presupposition. He was embarrassed on this issue. Although he was a very godly man, he was embarrassed because he knew that some scientists had got these ideas of millions of years, so he was looking at Scripture to see where those millions of years could be, and here was his answer.

Eric Hovind: So he put a gap in there of the long period of time just to try to coincide with the current science that was coming available?

Paul Taylor: His authority therefore was from outside Scripture. I don’t think he really real…understood that, and I don’t really think he did it fully deliberately, but that that’s where he’s authority is coming from, from outside Scripture.

Eric Hovind: I think it’s the same today, I think many people out there that believe in the gap theory, and you probably have dealt with people that are saying well hang on, can’t creation and evolution both be true? Can’t the old earth and God’s Word both be true? The problem is we are coming about it to say that you are not using the Bible, Scripture, God’s Word, as your authority. We are now taking on outside influences, such as modern science. And modern science has been wrong many many times. And they’re wrong about the age of the earth, for example right now.

Paul Taylor: That’s right, and remember we’re gonna take que from Scripture itself and what Scripture itself said, and this is one of the beauties actually of the King James version in Genesis chapter 1 this point, because you’ve got the word “and” very very frequently. And there is a reason for it, it’s not just archaic language at this point. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the earth and this and that and that. And the word “and” there represents the fact that there is no punctuation there in the Hebrew, and in fact the way it reads is pretty much breathless.

Eric Hovind: So it’s like its just one continuous sentence.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: It’s saying hey there’s no gaps here.

Paul Taylor: Yes.

Eric Hovind: This is all together.

Paul Taylor: One thing directly following another, directly following another, directly following another. Really, if you wanted a gap between verse 1 and verse 2,  you’d have to have a gap halfway through verse 2 as well. And a gap between verse 2 and verse 3, in order to be consistent.

Eric Hovind: Every single place that it’s there.

Paul Taylor: Yeah, but the word and just gives us that impression of breathlessness, there is no pause there. And therefore there is no gap.

Eric Hovind: Well, we keep going back to the authority of Scripture, and Ken Ham and Bodie Hodge has just authored another book. Man, they write a lot, of course they use other people, like Paul here, to help them write. And  you’ve got a couple chapters in here and one of them is on…

Paul Taylor: I wrote a chapter in there called “Did miracles really happen?” and I also wrote  a chapter jointly with Bodie Hodge  on the three days between  Jesus dying and rising again, what day did he die, what day did he rise again?

Eric Hovind: How come your chapter’s only one page long? That’s weird. [Laughter]No I’m just kidding.

Paul Taylor: Must be a misprint.

Eric Hovind: A great book that’s available and we’re, do we, does the Creation Store have this one?

Paul Taylor: It’s going to.

Eric Hovind: It’s going to, if it doesn’t, you can get that from Answers in Genesis, or Master Books would have that. But hopefully we’ll get that  at the Creation Store soon.

Paul Taylor: That’s right.

Eric Hovind: Got another thing?

Paul Taylor: Oh, well we’re running out of time.

Eric Hovind: Oh, right , the time.

Paul Taylor: So I think we should just say that’s the end of our show, and thank you [Laughter] for listening. If you’ve got any questions then you can address them to questions@creationtoday.org or join us on Twitter @creationtoday or Facebook, Creationtoday/, Facebook/creationtoday, something like that.

Eric Hovind: That’s the one, you can tune in each episode to see if we’ve had time to answer your questions, which we encourage you to continue sending us. We certainly, certainly appreciate it. This has been a production of God…

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