End of Year

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice!

The division in this country is not Democrat versus Republican or liberal versus conservative. The real division is given in Proverbs 29:2: “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn.” It’s not about electing conservatives; we need godly people to be elected at all levels of government. Then, we need to hold them to the Constitution in the same way that God’s law dictated what Israel could do and how to run their county.

Congress should not “make laws.” The elected should not be called “lawmakers.” God is the lawgiver. We need godly people who “seek His face” and rule accordingly (see 2 Chr 7:14). Since the love of money is the root of all evil (1 Tm 6:12), we need to examine many things about our system and be willing to modify them to match God’s law (the common law) and the Constitution. Washington should be about 10% of its current size (or less) as soon as possible. Where in the Constitution does it grant the Government the power to be involved in welfare, education, drug-law enforcement, National Endowment for the Arts, National Public Radio, and scores of other things? Follow the money.

Let’s elect “righteous” people and rejoice in the abundance of peace that following God’s laws and wisdom bring! Go vote while we still have that freedom!

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Leave28 Responses to testWhen the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice!

  1. Mike Ayala November 2, 2010 at 7:46 am #

    Hey Dr. Hovind,

    Let us hope that those who have the responsibility to vote cast their vote for those who depend on the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for leading and guidance through His Holy Spirit that they may walk in the light of His word and rule in righteousness that as a people we may live in the peace, blessing, and provision of God.

    The Lord said to Abram,

    “I will bless those who bless you,
    And I will curse him who curses you;
    And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

    As long as we have a government that continues to be a curse to Israel, our nation – or any nation – will continue to slide or stampede as in the case of the United States into the curse of bondage and slavery to sin leading to destruction through the path of moral decay. As long as our nation allows and even finances the murder of its babies, God’s judgment is certain.

    Isaiah 3:10-12,

    “Say to the righteous that it shall be well with them
    For they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

    Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him,
    For the reward of his hands shall be given him.

    As for My people, children are their oppressors,
    And women rule over them.
    O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
    And destroy the way of your paths.”

    Isaiah 5:13-16,

    “Therefore My people have gone into captivity,
    Because they have no knowledge;
    Their honorable men are famished,
    And their multitude dried up with thirst.

    Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself
    And opened its mouth beyond measure;
    Their glory and their multitude and their pomp,
    And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.

    People shall be brought down,
    Each man shall be humbled,
    And the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled.

    But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment.”

    Isaiah 9:16,

    “For the leaders of this people cause them to err,
    And those who are led by them are destroyed.”

    God bless and protect you.

    Mike Ayala

  2. Jay Liemowitz November 2, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    Kent said “Where in the Constitution does it grant the Government the power to be involved in welfare, education, drug-law enforcement, National Endowment for the Arts, National Public Radio, and scores of other things?”

    Section 8 of the first article of the US Constitution reads: “The Congress shall have Power To… provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States” and continues “To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts…”

    So now the question is, do these systems you just mentioned actually provide for the general welfare? I tend to agree with you that many of them are at least overblown, overused, or not regulated and utilized properly, and some of them should probably be done away with entirely. As with everything in the constitution however, those issues are up for debate. This is why we have elections.

    You also said “we need to examine many things about our system and be willing to modify them to match God’s law (the common law) and the Constitution.”

    I’m curious how you are able to make such a statement without recognizing the extreme irony within. Our constitution specifically forbids the government from enacting laws that respect any given religion, yes, even Christianity. These two conservative ideals of upholding the constitution while also modifying our government to align with specifically Christian principles are starkly in contrast with one another.

    As I see it, you have to pick one. Either you like the constitution and want to keep your God out of government affairs, or you want to do away with the constitution and institute a theocracy.

    Cognitive dissonance at it’s finest.

  3. Geno Castagnoli November 2, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    Kent Hovind wrote:
    “… we need godly people to be elected at all levels of government. Then, we need to hold them to the Constitution ….
    #####
    Geno comments:
    When my mother first moved to Oklahoma and needed work done on her house, neighbors would come by and say: “I know XXXX who does that kind of work, he’s a fine Christian…” Well, my mother got sick and tired of hiring “fine Christians” who did shoddy work that she had to have redone costing her double. It got to the point she would say: “I don’t care if he’s a devil worshiping pagan, if he does the work RIGHT the first time.”

    The same applies to those we elect to govern us. In fact, Kent’s argument itself shows a disregard for the Constitution which states: “…no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” (Article VI)

    When we elect “godly people” one of the risks is a theocratic government. One thing history clearly demonstrates are theocracies are ALWAYS bad. They especially damaging to individual rights and freedoms.

    We already have the right to hold our elected officials to the Constitution. It’s called an “election” and today is the day. If you feel those who hold government office are not following the Constitution, exercise that right and vote the bums out. But please base your decision on their actions not their religious beliefs.

  4. Geno Castagnoli November 2, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    Mike Ayala wrote:
    As long as we have a government that continues to be a curse to Israel,
    ####
    Geno comments:
    You’re kidding, right?

    How much money and equipment have we sent to Israel? We provide so much help to Israel that the entire Arab world sees us as Israel’s greatest ally. Israel gets more of our foreign aid than any other country in the world with about 50% more aid than the runner-up, Egypt.

  5. Jack Napper November 2, 2010 at 1:39 pm #

    You’re kidding, right?

    Why should silly things like facts get in the way of ranting on the interwebs?

  6. Don Carr November 2, 2010 at 3:02 pm #

    Amen, Amen, Amen and Amen
    (Amen being a vibration that helps our prayers reach through this mixed sea of good and evil to where only good prevails)

    We are already dead, so we might just as well chose to do what is right. After all what choice is there but to “choose to be chosen”. It is only the Higher Authority that answers to “Amen” that can help steer us out of this chaos. We are rudderless without Divine Intervention.

    So awaken the sleeping Light Body within and be charged by the Holy Spirit within such that we will be found worthy at the return of the Host.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we are not struggling against human beings, but against the rulers, authorities and cosmic powers governing this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly (local heavens) realm.

    Our Light Bodies are sealed, as is this planet. The seals on our bodies must be broken by the correct vibrations (“Amen” being one). Anyone wishing to battle against the dark forces must offer their flesh in service to righteousness (Melchizeldek), the receiver of the Light, and have their seals opened to function on a spiritual level.

    The five virgins or helpers full of oil are the five Light Bodies charged and functioning. The five virgins with their lights extinguished are not functioning. (We are all created in the image but require the similitude.)

    Join the Brotherhood who sing,
    “Kodoish, Kodoish, Kodoish Adonai ‘Tseberoth” continually, for they too wage battle against the dark forces.

    Amen

  7. ant bourdon November 2, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    Geno,
    I want to reply to you about the idea that death that God talked about in Genesis was physical and not only spiritual. I mistaked you about what you said that the creation was not perfect.

    It’s true that if it could be flawed, it couldn’t be perfect. I would add to this that only God and those in heaven are perfect. You are right. I didn’t read your post correctly, I’m sorry for what I said that could be hurting and for the fact that I made you lose your time by refuting something that wasn’t my position. I only thought about the idea that nature was materially incorruptible (if it was not of man’s choice).

    You are also right that Genesis talks about a spiritual death. But, I want to reassert that we don’t learn about the beginning of physical death in the Bible, but in the tradition of the church. It is well known that the fathers of the church already taught that Adam would not have died physically by pain if he had not sinned. Read what St-Thomas Aquinas has to say on this.

    You are right also that there is less sectarianism in believing that a physical death could exist before the sin of Adam than being outside the Catholic Church. I have not read every sectarianism from this web site because I don’t give it my support for it religious position, but for it scientific view of the creation. Focusing on our religious difference would give us less time to correct the errors of atheism which is something worse than having different views in religious matters. I would like to have debates to show that only the catholic church is right on religious matters, but it’s not the purpose of this website.

    I said that the truth can only be preserved by having humility and rationality because If there is someone that reject the teaching of the Church that he is in without trying to keep what is good and only reject what is bad by trying to reform the Church from the inside and not the outside, there is a loss of knowledge of the Truth because it is exactly like a child that refuse the wise teachings of his parents and start his knowledge on his own. He may not have the wrong things of his parents, but he can’t have the good things, so he loses certainly something with his revolt. Men may not be perfect, but there must be some truths in traditions.

    Ok, I’m not saying that you are rejecting some teachings because you don’t seem to have heard of any tradition about death, but I must tell you that there was already in the Church from the time of the early church the tradition that Mary, being unblemished and sinless did not die from a natural death caused by a slow deformation of his body, but went to heaven with his body because death could not take the body of a sinless person. St-Thomas Aquinas says that Adam could neither have died if he had not sinned like the virgin Mary, but he would have slept in death, going to heaven with his body. This is why I think that the tradition of the church, by affirming that Mary ascended into heaven with his body in the Assumption, shows that death did not exist before Adam sinned. It may not show with evidence that animals could not die however because they do not have an immortal soul. On the other hand, there is no where in the Genesis where it is suggested that there was more than 6 days to the creation. Other hypothesis come from the modern idea of evolution.

    Also, I must point out that since the world was made for man, it would have been useless to create it millions of years before it creation and make animals die for nothing during all that time. We may say that animals could die before Adam during millions of years, but why do it that way when it is written in the Bible that God made the world in 6 days. So, I will say that if there was ever death for animals before Adam sinned, it doesn’t permit that it happened during millions of years. There is also nothing on the scientific level that show that there was millions of years.

    You don’t have to answer my post if there are things that refer to differences of opinions. Anyway, I may not respond to it after that, since I won’t come to often now. I was more answering you to apologize about what I wrote.

  8. Mike Ayala November 2, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    Hi Geno,

    You’re smart enough to know that only goats kid.

    Actually, this is a very serious issue. Foreign aid to Israel is in part a function of the industrial/military economy. Follow the money. Weapon systems production and sales are a huge money maker for the United States and the multi-national corporation who owe no allegiance to anybody. If it were completely up to Obama, which at present it is not, indications are that Israel would receive no aid from the United States at all. Obama has revealed his colors that he is a Muslim, and his decisions and actions are in accordance to his beliefs – even to the point of leaving the southern U.S. border porous and susceptible to infiltration (there are more Hezbollah in South America than in Lebanon) and crippling the U.S. economy. It should seem strange to normal folks that the person in charge of keeping the United States safe and secure, the Commander in Chief, is suing Arizona to prevent it from complying with federal law controlling access across the border.

    Obama has taken the United States out of the position of being a moderator between Israel and the Palestinians to now championing the Palestinian cause. He has already made severe cuts in areas that count. Obama is trying to force Israel into making concessions with no prospect of achieving anything in kind from the Palestinians. Obama is trying to force Israel into establishing indefensible borders. Moreover, Obama is responsible for stopping Israel from producing their own fighter aircraft in lew of buying U.S. produced aircraft. In the end, Obama changed the deal on the new generation aircraft to Israel, so they are left out in the cold while the enemies of Israel are now buying the aircraft that were destined to Israel, and in doing so he crippled the Israeli economy because of the loss of jobs and industry that would have resulted from the superior aircraft production at home.

    Obama has been engineering a war for the destruction of Israel, and it has been extremely painful to watch. He has given both North Korea and Iran the green light to produce nuclear weapons, and he has used all the pressure at his disposal to stop Israel from proactively defending itself by taking out the Bushehr reactor and the Iranian nuclear development program. Don’t believe me. Go check it out for yourself. This is a no-brainer. Ask Israelis who are not fooled into believing that peace is possible with someone who is committed to their destruction: Islam is intractably at war to the death with Israel. Email Caroline Glick or follow local issues through Israel Today or Arutz Sheva.

    The existence of Israel is proof that Islam is not true, Allah is a false god, Mohammad is a false prophet, and the Koran is not the word of God, the Creator of heaven and earth – and the Moslems know it. The reason is simple: Once a land has been an Islamic possession, they claim it in perpetuity to always be an Islamic possession.. Hence the mosque at the World Trade Center site: the mosque is a symbol of conquest, and that is no secret. 120,000,000 Moslems have not been able to date to destroy 6,000,000 Jews. The land that once was under Islamic control is today under Israeli control. Islam cannot rest until it has destroyed Israel. Obama’s actions towards Israel as President of the United States are his effort to fulfill his role as a Moslem.

    As painful as it is to watch these events unfold just as they were prophesied 2500 years ago, it will also be glorious for those left behind at the rapture to see the Lord save Israel and destroy the enemies who come against Israel. The Lord will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling for all nations that burden themselves with Jerusalem. This is not to say that Israel will not also receive their judgement. Yes, they will be judged too. However, so too will all nations be judged based on their relationship with Israel: Did they bless Israel or did they curse Israel? Since Obama has been in office, the United States has been a curse against Israel. It is an interesting lesson to study the history of all empires who controlled the land of Israel throughout history. The sun never set on the British Empire until it took control of Israel.

    Geno, this issue is going to affect you and your family in the near term future. It is just another signpost along the way demonstrating that the Bible is the word of God, and you can trust it. The Bible is the only religious book that bases its veracity on the fact that it accurately foretells the future through prophecy.

    God bless you, Geno.

    Mike Ayala

  9. Carl M November 2, 2010 at 9:43 pm #

    Then, we need to hold them to the Constitution in the same way that God’s law dictated what Israel could do and how to run their county.

    Including slavery?

    “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus 25:44

    Exodus Chapter 21 has more rules for slave owning, to numerous to cut an paste into the blog.

    And doesn’t the First Ammendment contradict the First Commandment?

  10. Don Carr November 3, 2010 at 1:33 am #

    British Israel has nothing to do with Yerushalayim. Yerushalayim means “City of Light,” and is not on this earth. The ancient Hebrew knew they were not from this earth and looked forward to their return to the uncorrupted heavens.

    The exodus or diaspora is also a trip off planet. The red sea crossing has to do with leaving this limited solar spectum, and the stars falling to earth is what is seen as the earth is moved to a more central region in the galaxy.

    When the Host returns they will establish a new government amidst the collapse of the old regime. Likely during a coming cataclysm.

    Church is a word used to describe a group of people functioning in prayer with the Host, and has nothing to do with bricks and mortar. There will be no such thing as religion as the truth becomes known.

    Guns, violence and politics are meaningless in what is due to unfold. Just look back at the devastation of the last flood. This time by fire…We are being offered a chance to return to the stars.

    Eph 6:14-17
    Therefore stand! Have the belt of truth buckled around your waist, put on righteousness for a breastplate, and wear on your feet the readiness that comes from the good word of shalom. Always carry the shield of trust, with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the Evil One. And take the helmet of deliverance; along with the sword given by the Spirit, that is, the Word of YHWH; and pray at all times, with all kinds of prayers and requests, in the Spirit, vigilantly and persistently, for all YHWH’s people.

    This is a type of war where the battle is fought with Light. The Light Body.

  11. Ricky R November 3, 2010 at 7:21 pm #

    That’s puts a whole new perspective on how to look at things for me.
    The only thing is absolute morals don’t exist. Also, why would it be Christian morals? Plus there is The Separation of Law and State.

  12. andrew Ryan November 4, 2010 at 5:55 am #

    Ant: “I must point out that since the world was made for man, it would have been useless to create it millions of years before it creation and make animals die for nothing during all that time. ”

    Ant, that just means you don’t have a complete understanding of God’s plan. The logical extension of your post is that since all the other millions of planets in the solar system are ‘useless’ to man, they cannot exist either. This is faulty logic.

    As for the blog entry itself, the majority of politicians are believers. There are the believers on your side and the believers on the other side. Whether they are righteous or not has nothing to do with their religion. There are plenty of religious people committing crimes, plenty of atheists leading just lives. In fact statistically atheists are far less likely to commit crimes than believers.

  13. Mike Ayala November 4, 2010 at 7:37 am #

    andrew Ryan
    November 4th at 5:55 am

    Hey Andrew

    Small point, but the Bible does say loosely paraphrased,

    “There is none righteous, no, not one.”

    (Hence the reason why, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”)

    But I know what you meant.

    Grace and blessings,

    Mike Ayala

  14. andrew Ryan November 4, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    Then either the righteous are never in authority, or if you then that God is in authority, then the righteous are ALWAYS in authority! Read that way, Ken’s headline us meaningless. So I don’t think that’s what he meant…

  15. Don Carr November 4, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    Yes we all contain sin and closed thinking patterns that see no way out of the limitations of this physical existence.. In “Pistis Sophia” the teachings of the resurrected Christ preserved by the Coptics, Christ tells us that our soul material has been infused with the “sweat of the archons” thus polluting our souls, prior to arrival.

    This is the importance of repentance. The sin, or negative particles of the anti-universe, displace the Holy Spirit. We are to renounce this world and all things in it, instead recreating ourselves, or being reborn into a Light Body FIT for the Heavens.

    World Controllers create laws to block our release of corruted thought patterns – with guilt.

    Taken from Ayn Rand – Atlas Shrugged
    “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?”, said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against then you’ll know that this is not the age of beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

  16. Geno Castagnoli November 4, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    ant bourdon wrote:
    Geno,
    I want to reply to you about the idea that death that God talked about in Genesis was physical and not only spiritual. I mistaked you about what you said that the creation was not perfect.

    It’s true that if it could be flawed, it couldn’t be perfect. I would add to this that only God and those in heaven are perfect. You are right. I didn’t read your post correctly, I’m sorry for what I said that could be hurting and for the fact that I made you lose your time by refuting something that wasn’t my position. I only thought about the idea that nature was materially incorruptible (if it was not of man’s choice).
    #####
    Geno answers:
    No problem.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    You are also right that Genesis talks about a spiritual death. But, I want to reassert that we don’t learn about the beginning of physical death in the Bible, but in the tradition of the church. It is well known that the fathers of the church already taught that Adam would not have died physically by pain if he had not sinned. Read what St-Thomas Aquinas has to say on this.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    I’m familiar with the traditions. The problem isn’t the tradition, it is the literalists. If they want to insist on literal interpretations, then they need to deal with it.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    You are right also that there is less sectarianism in believing that a physical death could exist before the sin of Adam than being outside the Catholic Church. I have not read every sectarianism from this web site because I don’t give it my support for it religious position,
    #####
    Geno comments:
    Well, there are a number who frequent this website who are highly sectarian and anti-Catholic. I’m not so sure the Hovinds aren’t among them.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    but for it scientific view of the creation. Focusing on our religious difference would give us less time to correct the errors of atheism which is something worse than having different views in religious matters.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    Frankly, I see YEC as much more dangerous to the faith than atheism. On evolution/creation discussion groups, I’ve met a dozen or more who openly stated they once believed a literal Genesis but abandoned their belief in God entirely when they learned their mentors had lied to them about what science says and why science says it. I’ve only encountered one who converted from “evolutionist” to “creationist.”

    St. Augustine said it some 1600 years ago. Paraphrasing:
    “Even pagans can see and understand the working of the heavens and the seasons. What does it do when believers claim things non-believers KNOW to be false from experience and reason and cause those who are not bound by Scripture to laugh it to scorn.”
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    I would like to have debates to show that only the catholic church is right on religious matters, but it’s not the purpose of this website.
    ######
    Geno answers:
    Indeed. In fact, isn’t that sectarianism? Thanks anyway, I’m not here for the “my denomination is saved and yours is damned” kind of discussions.
    #####

    Ant wrote (in part):
    This is why I think that the tradition of the church, by affirming that Mary ascended into heaven with his body in the Assumption, shows that death did not exist before Adam sinned. It may not show with evidence that animals could not die however because they do not have an immortal soul.
    #####
    Geno comments:
    As I see it, the only real difference between man and the other animals is that we have been given an immortal soul which they lack.
    #####

    Ant writes:
    On the other hand, there is no where in the Genesis where it is suggested that there was more than 6 days to the creation. Other hypothesis come from the modern idea of evolution.
    #####
    Geno points out:
    Not really. Geologists were beginning to realize the Earth was ancient not too long after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Astronomers realized an ancient universe with advances in telescopes and the ability to extract more and more data about objects that were farther and farther from Earth. Those disciplines formed their conclusions from entirely seperate and independent data that have nothing to do with each other or with evolution.
    #####

    Ant writes:
    Also, I must point out that since the world was made for man, it would have been useless to create it millions of years before it creation and make animals die for nothing during all that time.
    #####
    Geno:
    Why? How long is a billion years or so in the mind of an eternal being?
    #####

    Ant writes:
    We may say that animals could die before Adam during millions of years,
    ####
    Geno points out:
    Right. It’s so much better to have them not die for a few years, then condenm them to suffering and death for thousands of years because of the actions of a couple idiots. I have to wonder where the Bible says animals (other than the serpent, who wasn’t sentenced to death either) were free of death before the Fall.
    #####

    Ant writes:
    There is also nothing on the scientific level that show that there was millions of years.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    Except for the fact I can walk out in my back yard tonight, look to the northern sky and see the galaxy “Andromeda” (distance 2.4 million light years) with my unaided eye….. not to mention the hundred billion plus galaxies farther away than that.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    You don’t have to answer my post if there are things that refer to differences of opinions. Anyway, I may not respond to it after that, since I won’t come to often now. I was more answering you to apologize about what I wrote.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    No offence taken. No need to apologize.

  17. Caleb Fielding November 4, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    I am surprised how many people here do not know what the first amendment is talking about. Let me give it to you in a nut shell.

    Every European country has a state church, that is tax supported, and to run for office go to university, or have a state job you had to be a member of good standing in the state church. England was the first country to end this in europe in 1865 (Dont quote me on the year it has been a while since I saw the exact year). I am currently reading george mullurs biography and at these times according to his biography the baptist church in Germany was persecuted especially with heavy taxation.

    Many people that ware persecuted for the church they were in came to america and brought there own state church to america. The three (state churches) that were brought were church of england, lutheren, and presbyterian. Each of the colonies had there own state church and only that church was licensed, until 1664 when rhode island was the first and only colony to have freedom of religion, where anyone could worship according to their conscience. The reason why rhode island had freedom of religion or you could say freedom to worship according to their own conscience, was because the Baptist refused to be a state church, and constantly sought for the freedom of their own conscience.

    When it came time to write the constitution they originally wanted to have four state churches in america, church of England, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Baptist, (these were all to be tax funded like the European churches still are) but the baptist fought against it because it is baptist belief that you should worship according to your own conscience, and that God can supply for his own people without the help of government.

    Hopefully this very bare bones explanation of church history in western culture will help explain why the constitution says that “congress shall make no law respecting and establishment of religion” and also why it says that “no religious test shall be given”

  18. augur bulgor November 4, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    Why does congress need to remain true to the constitution in the same way that Israel had to follow God’s word?

    Is there a true connection or is Dr. Hovind being theatric?

  19. Caleb Fielding November 5, 2010 at 2:40 pm #

    the constitution is the law congress is supposed to follow and abide by and since they have not done that bad bad things are coming.

    similar to what happened to isreal when they did not follow Gods law.

  20. ant bourdon November 6, 2010 at 11:28 am #

    Geno said:
    I’m familiar with the traditions. The problem isn’t the tradition, it is the literalists. If they want to insist on literal interpretations, then they need to deal with it.
    # # # # # #
    That is true. If we insist on literal interpretations, we must deal with it. I’m not really what we could call a literalist. I think any part of the Bible has a literal meaning and a figurative one at the same time. We must be careful in reading the Bible to either reject one interpretation to keep the other. I think both are true.
    # ## # # ### #
    Geno said:
    Well, there are a number who frequent this website who are highly sectarian and anti-Catholic. I’m not so sure the Hovinds aren’t among them.
    # # # # # # # #
    This is sad, but it seems to me that no one can be right on everything. You say yourself that even atheists can be right on cosmology. Why couldn’t sectarian people be right on the creation interpretation? Is there any difference between two people that do not have the complete knowledge of the Truth?
    # # # # # # # # # #
    You said:
    Frankly, I see YEC as much more dangerous to the faith than atheism. On evolution/creation discussion groups, I’ve met a dozen or more who openly stated they once believed a literal Genesis but abandoned their belief in God entirely when they learned their mentors had lied to them about what science says and why science says it. I’ve only encountered one who converted from “evolutionist” to “creationist.”
    # # # # ## ## # ##
    It’s not YEC that is dangerous in what you say here. It’s the lies and the lack of knowledge of these mentors. It’s illogical to abandon a belief just because you happen to know someone that is not able to justify that belief. It’s like saying that we shouldn’t be catholic because of the crusades.

    As for my own experience, the people I know that were taught evolution in schools and were not from religious families lost most of their faith (hundreds of people). The people that were religious, but were not logical people but emotional adopted evolution after they were taught that God could cause evolution by priests or people that they greatly esteemed (they were not convinced rationally). Every religious people that I know that are cerebral laugh at evolution and OEC when I talk to them about it or they don’t know much about it.

    So, I think that the people you met were emotional people that made the wrong reasoning that YEC was wrong because no one could defend it.
    # # # ## # # # # # # # #
    you said:
    St. Augustine said it some 1600 years ago. Paraphrasing:
    “Even pagans can see and understand the working of the heavens and the seasons. What does it do when believers claim things non-believers KNOW to be false from experience and reason and cause those who are not bound by Scripture to laugh it to scorn.”
    # # ## # ## ### # #
    St-Augustine specify “things non-believers know to be false from EXPERIENCE” In the case of evolution, non-believers neither know nor have the experience of evolution.
    # # # # ## # # ## # #
    Geno comments:
    As I see it, the only real difference between man and the other animals is that we have been given an immortal soul which they lack.
    # # # # ## #
    No, we are also free to do according to God’s will or not. That’s the main difference. St-Thomas said that as long as man’s soul would be uncorrupted, his body also would be. He took that from traditions, so, you take what you like, possibilities must be studied by theology.
    # # # # # # # # # #
    Geno:
    Why? How long is a billion years or so in the mind of an eternal being?
    #######
    Well, As I see it, even if the Universe was old, evolution stays false. There are no transitional fossils, no information can arise by naturalistic processes (ex: the smaller number of genes that could sustain life is 250) Why would God make millions of miracles to make man from dust when he can make it in one step and give us no indication that it was done that way (no transitional fossils).
    ### ######
    Geno points out:
    Right. It’s so much better to have them not die for a few years, then condenm them to suffering and death for thousands of years because of the actions of a couple idiots. I have to wonder where the Bible says animals (other than the serpent, who wasn’t sentenced to death either) were free of death before the Fall.
    # # # # # # # #
    Well, even if they could die before the fall, you still need fossils to account for their life. If you believe in evolution, you need transitional fossils (none are found) if you just believe animals were on the earth before man, then why isn’t there more fossils? we have thousands of fossils from men, but we don’t have more fossils from other species that have lived millions of years on the earth compared to a couple of thousands for men. I must add that you can’t believe that the stratas of the geologic column show millions of years and also believe the flood. The flood would have destroyed these stratas by putting a super high amount of pressure and erosion on the continents. In YEC, the stratas are believed to have been formed by the flood and it is consistent to how stratas are normally formed: under water. the larger the amount of dirt will be moved by the water, the larger the stratas will be. And it’s the case, stratas around the earth are large compared to what we see in small deposits in small rivers.
    # # # # ## # ## #
    Geno answers:
    Except for the fact I can walk out in my back yard tonight, look to the northern sky and see the galaxy “Andromeda” (distance 2.4 million light years) with my unaided eye… not to mention the hundred billion plus galaxies farther away than that.
    # ## # # # # # #
    First, it’s true that this observation could support an old Universe, but it gives no support to the evolution crap.
    1. Even the Big Bang theory can’t explain why there is an equal amount of energy coming from everywhere in the Universe. There has not been enough time to equalize the energy in all the Universe. Unless the speed of light was greater in the past then it is today. See, even if YEC doesn’t explain well that problem, it stays a problem for everyone.

    2. If we study relativity, we could learn how light could have reached earth in a normal time at the same time that time on earth would be very slow. So, the problem would be solved if it’s how it happened. This is still on study.
    3. Anyway, As I said, this only gives a support for an old Universe (there is not enough studies on this to conclude that it is the case) It gives no support to evolution which is clearly false (scientifically and theologically). Man is not evolving, this is contrary to the teaching of the fall. Man is in fact devolving. Why would Adam live 930 years if he had no stonger genes? Why would dinosaurs become so big if they had no good genes to live very old (reptiles never stop growing).

  21. Geno Castagnoli November 6, 2010 at 10:52 am #

    Suggestion to CSE:

    The desire to limit the length of discussion on blog topics is certainly understandable and reasonable.

    However, I have noticed a number of topics “expire” on the weekends. It seems no one updates the blog on weekends either (which is also understandable and reasonable). This means topics initiated on Tuesday and Wednesday may have as little as 3 days for exchanges between those of differing viewpoints. (How much “fun” is a blog where everyone agrees?)

    I suggest you extend the posting limit from 5 days to 7 days. This will retain the time limit on discussions, but allow all topics to have the same amount of time for discussion (5 working days).

    • CSE November 8, 2010 at 10:52 am #

      Suggestion Noted! Thanks for the feedback! We just changed it.

      Thanks for your participation in our community! God bless!

  22. JP Minnaar November 6, 2010 at 5:29 pm #

    To Kent Hovind, Hope you well, in my darkest days, i found light in your seminaars from the dark of confusion this world feeds us.

    wow. i hoped i could get my answer from the blog with out writing since i already e-mailed cse but here goes, bare with me.

    If one looks at the laws in the old testament. So many times the old testament talks about the killing of other people. ie. Leviticus 20. In other cases, destruction of complete nations, Book of Joshua 6 to name 2 only. I dont want to take the scripture out of context like so many do, ie. 2 Peter3.8. Favorite text of gap theory “activists”(Again one has to let them know what they believe in)

    So please some one help me. If we fully obide to God’s Law, I feel sorry for those who are not of Judeo-Christian faith in this case. Something like Iran in a Judeo-Christian fasion.

    [My family was prosecuted in France by the church, and later here by the english in the consentration camps with the 2nd Boer War. I am a French Hugenot. (with some German Belgian & Dutch admitedly) In my country we have a wide veriaty of cultures and faiths. Not to mention the 11 offical languages.I believe in freedom for all, that includes atheists. I grew up in a country that prosecuted other races(Apartheid-South Africa) and faiths(Catholic church was tought in school to be wrong) and so on. Strange that such a so called church state have also tought evolution and the gap theory with out naming it properly, another matter all together]

    I guess my question to truth is, what is the truth about the New Testament and the Old Testament. And do we read the bible Litrely ie. books of Daniel & Revelation.(the only books i strugle with literaly).

    I can give it all to faith, but if i answer sceptics of the Word of God with faith alone, they would prpably laugh at me. (Keep in mind that i am daily at a comunity centre were there are Atheists, Muslems and difrent Churches. I defend my belief all day long.

    I have also read some of the Koran (the first part called the cow) and wow, how close there profet Mohammed were to the old testament is scary, i mean how cursed some people are and others not to be put to death or not.

    Also on the subject discussed, the Jews are but one tribe of Israel, How can Israel be claimed as there contry and call it Israel. Not to mention Josephs two sons Manasseh and Ephraim who’s mother were a Egiptian priest’s daughter called Asenath, who also had claim to part of the land of Isreal.

    I believe that there is a promise to those who go against Israel and blessing to those who…dare i say support them. But who do one support.

    Bibel history is awesome to read, aspesialy fulfilled profecy. Gives me hope that all proficy will be fulfilled.

    God Bless

  23. Bill Kerbonski November 6, 2010 at 6:41 pm #

    Kent Hovind is right,,,,…again.

    1) laws should not be “made”
    2) people rejoice when the righteous rule
    3) we need to modify our system to match God’s law

    Imagine if Pastors across America would teach this. WOW

  24. Tony Curtis November 7, 2010 at 5:44 am #

    Heya Eric,

    How are you? and How is your dad? I have been studying all of your dad videos and ppt to learn more on how to debate evilutionists… <==== evolutionist… but so far I have only got ridicule and they never give any response to my questions..
    but anyway, just wanted to say hi and praying your dad is doing well and ready for Jesus Christ second coming.

  25. Joseph DeJohn November 8, 2010 at 2:57 pm #

    I wish more people would wake up and smell the coffee. I did not vote for any of the schmucks we currently have in power. Honestly, I know you have a lot going for you, but the way the current economic environment is, you might be better off in jail. Not really, but you get my gist.

    The people still have not felt enough pain. It might take a famine for the people to finally wake up.

  26. Geno Castagnoli November 8, 2010 at 10:00 pm #

    Geno said:
    Frankly, I see YEC as much more dangerous to the faith than atheism. On evolution/creation discussion groups, I’ve met a dozen or more who openly stated they once believed a literal Genesis but abandoned their belief in God entirely when they learned their mentors had lied to them about what science says and why science says it. I’ve only encountered one who converted from “evolutionist” to “creationist.”
    # # # # ## ## # ##
    Ant replied:
    It’s not YEC that is dangerous in what you say here. It’s the lies and the lack of knowledge of these mentors. It’s illogical to abandon a belief just because you happen to know someone that is not able to justify that belief.
    #####
    Geno points out:
    I agree, it’s the lies of the mentors (about what science says and why science says it) that are the problem. But when one has been taught something their entire life, then finds out the teaching was based on lies, it’s hard to maintain belief in anything those mentors have taught.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    As for my own experience, the people I know that were taught evolution in schools and were not from religious families lost most of their faith (hundreds of people). The people that were religious, but were not logical people but emotional adopted evolution after they were taught that God could cause evolution by priests or people that they greatly esteemed (they were not convinced rationally). Every religious people that I know that are cerebral laugh at evolution and OEC when I talk to them about it or they don’t know much about it.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    From my own, and very personal, experience….. When I questioned my religious mentors about this if they had claimed (paraphrasing) “literal Genesis or nothing”, it would have been nothing. I would have completely abandoned any belief in God. To me, the evidence God provides us in His creation is overwhelming…. it simply screams at us that it is billions of years old, not a few thousand. Oh yeah…. I spent the first 15 years of my education (thru 3 years of university) at religious schools. At my first university, all students were automatic philosophy minors and all Catholic students were required to take a theology class every semester.

    The ones who “don’t know much about it” are those who know little about what science says and why science says it.
    #####

    Ant comments:
    So, I think that the people you met were emotional people that made the wrong reasoning that YEC was wrong because no one could defend it.
    ####
    Geno answers:
    It’s kind of funny you should say something like that to me. The reason is one of the things my first wife didn’t like about me, and one of my former bosses did is that I use a logical analytical approach to problem solving.
    #####

    Geno said:
    St. Augustine said it some 1600 years ago. Paraphrasing:
    “Even pagans can see and understand the working of the heavens and the seasons. What does it do when believers claim things non-believers KNOW to be false from experience and reason and cause those who are not bound by Scripture to laugh it to scorn.”
    #####
    Ant answers:
    St-Augustine specify “things non-believers know to be false from EXPERIENCE” In the case of evolution, non-believers neither know nor have the experience of evolution.
    #####
    Geno comments:
    I think maybe you should see the entire quote from St. Augustine. I’ll provide it in another post.
    #####

    Geno said:
    As I see it, the only real difference between man and the other animals is that we have been given an immortal soul which they lack.
    #####
    Ant answers:
    No, we are also free to do according to God’s will or not. That’s the main difference. St-Thomas said that as long as man’s soul would be uncorrupted, his body also would be. He took that from traditions, so, you take what you like, possibilities must be studied by theology.
    #####
    Geno points out:
    Free will in the presence of a perfect and omniscient (all knowing) God is a contradition. Simply stated, if God is perfect and already knows what I will do, I can do nothing else. You say “the possibilities must by studied by theology.” Well, I have studied the possibilites in theology and I have studied them in philosophy and I have attended debates between theologians and philosophers. The only resolution I’ve seen to the contradiction between free will and an omniscient God is that it is a “mystery of faith” that we can have free will.

    Now, I could be wrong. Let’s take a trivial example. I have a choice of cherry pie or apple pie for desert. God knows I will “choose” apple pie. Is it possible I can pick the cherry pie? If it is not possible for me to pick cherry pie, how can I have truly free will?
    #####

    Ant said:
    Well, As I see it, even if the Universe was old, evolution stays false. There are no transitional fossils,
    #####
    Geno answers:
    If the universe is old, a literal reading of Genesis is false.

    As for transitional fossils, I guess all those thousands of paleontologists who say there are transitional fossils are wrong. (One would think they might have the skills to recognize a transitional fossil since they have dedicated their entire career to the study of fossils.)
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    I must add that you can’t believe that the stratas of the geologic column show millions of years and also believe the flood.
    ######
    Geno answers:
    I don’t believe there was a global flood. The physics simply doesn’t support it.
    #####

    Ant wrote:
    The flood would have destroyed these stratas by putting a super high amount of pressure and erosion on the continents. In YEC, the stratas are believed to have been formed by the flood and it is consistent to how stratas are normally formed: under water. the larger the amount of dirt will be moved by the water, the larger the stratas will be. And it’s the case, stratas around the earth are large compared to what we see in small deposits in small rivers.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    Except, of course for those strata that are thousands of meters thick. It has already been pointed out by someone else these strata would need to form layers about every 10 minutes complete with animals burrows, etc. Of course animal burrows don’t form well when the animals have already been killed by the flood.

    But I guess those thousands of geologists are wrong too. (One might think they would have the skill to recognize a flood layer since they have spent their entire career studying the formation of rocks.)
    #####

    Geno pointed out:
    Except for the fact I can walk out in my back yard tonight, look to the northern sky and see the galaxy “Andromeda” (distance 2.4 million light years) with my unaided eye… not to mention the hundred billion plus galaxies farther away than that.
    ######
    Ant answers:
    First, it’s true that this observation could support an old Universe, but it gives no support to the evolution crap.
    1. Even the Big Bang theory can’t explain why there is an equal amount of energy coming from everywhere in the Universe. There has not been enough time to equalize the energy in all the Universe. Unless the speed of light was greater in the past then it is today. See, even if YEC doesn’t explain well that problem, it stays a problem for everyone.
    #####
    Geno answers:
    There is no evidence of a significant change in the speed of light over the last 12 billion years. The Australian astronomer Paul Davies has been mentioned here. He did a study (reported in the August, 2002 edition of the journal “Nature”) showing the speed of light from galaxies 12 billion light years from Earth is within 0.001% of the modern observed value.

    Much closer to home, the observed decay rate of Cobalt-56 in the spectra of Sn1987a is consistent with that observed on Earth today. This is evidence the speed of light has not changed significantly since it left an object 167,000+ light years from Earth.

    As I’ve pointed out before, the Big Bang can be absolutely, totally, completely, 100% false and the evidence of an ancient universe remains intact. YEC is STILL falsified by my ability to directly observe, with my unaided eye, objects millions of light years from Earth.

    Maybe all the astronomers, who have spent their entire professional careers studying these things are wrong too.
    #####

    Ant comments:
    2. If we study relativity, we could learn how light could have reached earth in a normal time at the same time that time on earth would be very slow. So, the problem would be solved if it’s how it happened. This is still on study.
    #####
    Geno responds:
    That would be Dr. Humphreys’ “White Hole” cosmology. Leaving aside the difficulties it has with the formation of the solar system and Milky Way….

    If time were slowed that much on Earth, radioactive decay would also be slowed…. if we study relativity, that is. Unfortunately, YEC requires greatly accelerated decay.

    But, I guess all the physicists are wrong about this one too.

    Do we see a trend here? All the highly trained paleontologists are wrong. All the highly trained geologists are wrong. All the highly trained astronomers are wrong. All the highly trained physicists are wrong. In fact, all the highly trained scientists in virtually EVERY branch of science are wrong. But a few YEC (virtually all of whom have little or no scientific training) who openly declare their anti-scientific bias when examining the evidence are right.

    Hmmmmmmmm.
    #######

    Ant writes:
    3. Anyway, As I said, this only gives a support for an old Universe
    #####
    Geno comments:
    Which completly refutes YEC and a literal Genesis.
    #####

    Ant writes:
    (there is not enough studies on this to conclude that it is the case)
    #####
    Geno asks:
    At what point would there be “enough studies on this to conclude that is the case” the universe is actually old?
    #####

    Ant writes:
    It gives no support to evolution which is clearly false (scientifically and theologically).
    #####
    Geno asks:
    At this point, I think it is fair to ask your scientific and theological training.
    #####

    Ant writes:
    Man is not evolving, this is contrary to the teaching of the fall. Man is in fact devolving. Why would Adam live 930 years if he had no stonger genes? ######
    Geno comments:
    Adam didn’t live 930 years either. There is not a shred of empirical evidence supporting a claim humans ever had a life span significantly longer than modern humans.

  27. Geno Castagnoli November 8, 2010 at 10:02 pm #

    Here is what St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo wrote about a literal Genesis about 1600 years ago:

    Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.

    Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?

    Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.